Linkwitz Orions beaten by Behringer.... what!!? - Page 32 - diyAudio
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Old 20th February 2013, 04:54 PM   #311
lolo is offline lolo  France
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Well, than keep the plans, buy the Behringer, live with them for a while and go to a concert. Then, you can decide. I myself will also buy the Behringer, out of curiosity. Did you see John K comments on the test?
You can do even cheaper than the Behringer, choose two nice small FR driver, put them on a pipe firing up, listen in near field. It's shocking, worth max 150$. So what? Wouldn't throw the Orions based on that!

Last edited by lolo; 20th February 2013 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 20th February 2013, 05:33 PM   #312
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I myself will also buy the Behringer, out of curiosity
I would recommend measuring and equalizing the Behringers with a parametric equalizer, or you can use my FREE open-source FIR algorithm.

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You can do even cheaper than the Behringer, choose two nice small FR driver, put them on a pipe firing up, listen in near field. It's shocking, worth max 150$. So what? Wouldn't throw the Orions based on that!
I'm never said the Orion/LX521 are bad speakers. Simply: I don't believe the hype (I've heard the Orion myself in person), particularly in light of the AES report. I'm also turned off by SL's grandiose and unqualified claims, his sale of construction plans that should be open-source hardware (free) if his good intentions are genuine. If SL had no financial interest at stake he would release his designs under a Create Commons license and publish real measurements. There would be no exclusive manufacturing and distribution deals (SEAS drivers and Madisound) But no, there's too much money at stake here.
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Old 20th February 2013, 05:45 PM   #313
puppet is offline puppet  United States
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But no, there's too much money at stake here.
.... this is "coffee out of nose" funny.
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Old 20th February 2013, 05:50 PM   #314
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Yes hilarious ...

Green , you seem bitter about something and it appears to have nothing to do with the sound of the orions ...

As to eq, if you have to throw away the speakers and start again, eq is not necessary when done right , it kills dynamics , your noise floor and you will always have poor image sizing and uneven growth.

Yes i heard its great when done digitally , my experiences have not proven so...

Last edited by a.wayne; 20th February 2013 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 20th February 2013, 06:02 PM   #315
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
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About a decade ago I organized a shootout between various small studio monitors to update three commercial production facilities. The winner replaced combo Auratones and some forgotten model of large JBLs driven with Brystons. Other than those red Tannoys and a small Roland, the other competitors are now forgotten. Producers intimately familiar with the sound of their studios and the voices they worked with daily chose the Behringer Truth. It shocked me but the price was right and they were both self-powered and internally protected. As far as I know they're still in use two shifts a day.
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Old 20th February 2013, 06:03 PM   #316
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Green , you seem bitter about something and it appears to have nothing to do with the sound of the orions ...
Yes, I'm bitter at myself for being naive and not doing proper engineering due diligence (the AES report) before purchasing expensive construction plans. My own fault for falling prey to audiophile hyperbole.

This sums it up fairly well.

Ok, time to step off the soapbox. Enjoy your hobby.

Last edited by greenm01; 20th February 2013 at 06:31 PM. Reason: editorial
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Old 20th February 2013, 10:11 PM   #317
terry j is offline terry j  Australia
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post

As to eq, if you have to throw away the speakers and start again, eq is not necessary when done right , it kills dynamics , your noise floor and you will always have poor image sizing and uneven growth.

Yes i heard its great when done digitally , my experiences have not proven so...
wow, talk about one big generalization. I accept 'in your experience', after all I take you at your word.

Not even sure what uneven growth means but hey, the rest was enough to make it not worth while trying to work it out.

I agree with your fundamental point however, the less you need (due to proper design) the better of course. As we are talking the orions and the behringer (the active one I presume) then we are in the active realm?

Kills dynamics pfft. Depending on the unit, it's capabilities and the quality of the set up all taken as given then you tell me 'what' kills dynamics?

I'll tell you. When the signals/frequencies all arrive at different times, from the tweeter to the sub. That's what kills dynamics. That along with uneven intensities of those arriving signals.

Time align them (depends on the unit being used), match all the frequencies in time and amplitude. You'll have more dynamics than you ever thought possible.

Now fix the speaker room interface, eq in this case as it is the one under discussion, AND salt it to your own personal taste in it's presentation to you. No more of this 'plonk it down and you get what you get brother' in terms of perceived FR at the LP.

Lack of dynamics and poor imaging size....you could not have chosen phrases more opposite from the comments I get if you attempted to.
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Old 20th February 2013, 10:46 PM   #318
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If SL had no financial interest at stake he would release his designs under a Create Commons license and publish real measurements. There would be no exclusive manufacturing and distribution deals (SEAS drivers and Madisound) But no, there's too much money at stake here.
I don't think this is a fair assessment of the person

SL like many other can commercialise his product as he choose! And he'd been very generous with the design etc. The plans are priced very reasonably.

He never even patented LR crossover fwiw !
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Old 20th February 2013, 10:56 PM   #319
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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@Terry J,

Obvious we are exposed to different experiences, are you disputing or asking? not sure from your response.


Please name the active setup you are discussing, no need to throw out academic situations as to setup and alignment. As to the orions, they were poorly designed from first sight, i did not need to hear them, i did the due diligence on that one 25 years ago, but this is audio, so good to me , may not be good to you.

I can respect what others like, once it is not passed off as the only way ....

My perspective is that eq does not work, it may make a bad speaker sound acceptable, but it will never match a good speaker.Behringers are bad, Genilic's are OK, as pro monitors, yet like the venerable NS10's studios live by them because most who work their dont have ears, they work with what they know and what works for them, it's the difference between a guitar player and one taught to play the guitar..

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Old 21st February 2013, 12:24 AM   #320
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I don't think this is a fair assessment of the person
Nothing personal here. I'm not even suggesting the designs are inadequate; I know the Orion/LX521 and Pluto (sitting in my living room) sound good. But, there is no audio Holy Grail, stereo is a compromise, and the Orion/LX521 are not the end-all-be-all as advertised.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

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SL like many other can commercialise his product as he choose! And he'd been very generous with the design etc.
Of course, and that validates my point in regard to commercial interests. Lets not hide behind the guise of benevolent benefactor to audio.

Much of the technical literature posted on SL's website, specifically in regard to the superiority of the open baffle dipole, is subjective hand-waiving. Last time I checked I didn't notice any objective Orion/LX521 measurements posted.

The AES Report contracts this statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SL
"...that the loudspeaker's radiation pattern and placement in the room are more important than the acoustics of the room."
More subjective BS:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SL
"The brain's working suggests how to design a loudspeaker so that it can withdraw attention from the loudspeaker as the source of sound and the listening room as the venue, thus leaving an aural scene, an illusion floating in front of the listener."
...pure fluff.

I'm sure many naive audiophiles have fallen for this language. I sure did... but I'm thankful I did a little homeowork before dropping several thousand dollars on drivers and outdated analog crossovers and filters.

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The plans are priced very reasonably.
Well, for the $325 (two instruction manuals) I could have purchased the Behringer Truth monitors - or more cool MiniDSP gear.

Last edited by greenm01; 21st February 2013 at 12:28 AM. Reason: editorial
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