I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

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electron movement is controlled by the EM field, not electrons pushing each other

Sorta the same thing. If you apply an external electric field across a conductor the electrons get pushed together to create an internal field that is equal and opposite so there is no net field in the conductor. When the field is taken away, the electrons which are still creating a field get pushed apart by that field until there is no net field in the conductor.
In antenae theory the antenae always re-radiates half the power it absorbs because the current induced in the conductor causes its own EM field to be radited back out. The field and the electrons are intertwined.
 
diyAudio Senior Member
Joined 2002
Hi,

I haven't really tested solid vs stranded cable, I can however say my favourite cable at this stage happen to be solid core silver. I've also compared a good multistrand power cable with a solid core on my CD player, the solid core stayed because of a better focussed soundstage.

While I understand that solid core isn't the most convenient conductor, your observation on the difference in sound is correlating with mine and other people's observations.

Let's be clear on one point though, multi-strand to me means a bunch of non-insulated conductors put in an insulating sheeth.

Multi-stranded multiples of single individually insulated solid core wires do not sound the same as single solid core runs.

If I were asked to describe the difference, I'd say better focus, more cohesiveness and a cleaner, clearer rendition of the sound.

This, regardless of whether we're talking powercords, IC's or LS cables, the effect remains consistant.

The argument that studio recording venues are using hundredth's of feet of muti-strand is besides the point.
The studio recordings I consider accurate are really scarce...Maybe they measure more than they actually listen but mostly I'm afraid it's just about making $s........

Cheers, ;)
 
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Actually a full hose is a good analogy if the hose loops around back into the pump to make a closed cicuit. The water is the free electrons the pressure is the voltage. When you turn on the pump (voltage source) it causes a pressure wave (EM wave) to travel down the hose which moves the water (electrons). The pressure wave travels a lot faster than the water. EM waves travel a lot faster (10^9 m/sec), than the electrons (cm/sec) that give us current.

Confused. . .

Moving the original force looks like a lot of work!
Thank goodness that copper is a reasonable conductor and, even in solid form, it can make copies of a force, quickly to the opposite end. This is neither hydraulic nor a current unless the copper is operated at or above 1084 degrees Celsius. Perhaps the analogy could use a solenoid shaker instead of a rotary pump?
 
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Let's be clear on one point though, multi-strand to me means a bunch of non-insulated conductors put in an insulating sheeth.
. . .

OH! Where can I buy this?
I'm having no luck finding any for purchase. The available stranded cable, that I can find, has the fibers all with clear varnish/enamel/lacquer corrosion protection that its quite difficult to remove.
 

GK

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Joined 2006
Let's take the specific example of coax. This type of structure has as its principal mode of wave propagation a thing called TEM mode (transverse electromagnetic). For TEM mode, the velocity of propagation is that of light divided by the square root of the (relative) dielectric constant.

Let's look at the Belden catalog, say Belden 89259 coax. It gives the velocity factor as 78 percent. This means the velocity of wave propagation in the cable is 0.78 that of light. Let's call the actual velocity v and the velocity of light c, and the dielectric constant epsilon. So we have:

v = c / sqrt(epsilon)

therefore,

epsilon = (c / v)2

So epsilon = (1 / 0.78)2

epsilon = 1.64 = "relative dielectric constant"

The speed of light is 3 * 1010 cm/sec, so in the cable, you get 0.78 * 3 * 1010 cm/sec
= 2.34 * 1010 cm/sec


I remember, back at the broadcast division with microwave antenna arrays to assemble, we had to prepare and cut the coax to the elements to mm accuracy. The effects were easilly measured here - a couple of mm the wrong way and the thing wouldn't have a hope of being adequately tuned.

I hope the audiophiles are doing the same with their individual L/R channel cables! :dead:
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Moderator warning: Glen, make more work for me, you're in the Bin.
 
Let's look at the Belden catalog, say Belden 89259 coax. It gives the velocity factor as 78 percent. This means the velocity of wave propagation in the cable is 0.78 that of light. Let's call the actual velocity v and the velocity of light c, and the dielectric constant epsilon. So we have:

v = c / sqrt(epsilon)

therefore,

epsilon = (c / v)2

So epsilon = (1 / 0.78)2

epsilon = 1.64 = "relative dielectric constant"

The speed of light is 3 * 1010 cm/sec, so in the cable, you get 0.78 * 3 * 1010 cm/sec
= 2.34 * 1010 cm/sec

Thank you for an applied example! I don't have the skill to calculate this except for an estimate; but, clearly the speed of the charge upon the cable is a whopping amount different than the audio band.

Looking at this, wire is much faster than a transistor.

The advertisements for speaker cable are a bit mistaken. They may have altered the electronic dampening of the speaker, which does affect the speed of the cone. They may replace a defective cable with one that is more suited to a signal. However, they didn't increase the speed of their cable enough to affect the audio band.

Okay. The only way to get a faster speaker cable is to replace a defective speaker cable. The speed of the advertising has no effect on the audio band.
My head hurts. ;)

And how does any of this math prove what people hear with their ears and translate by their brain?

It wasn't the speed of the cable. Other properties of the cable can have an effect.
 
Let's be clear on one point though, multi-strand to me means a bunch of non-insulated conductors put in an insulating sheeth.

;)

Multi-stranded multiples of single individually insulated solid core wires do not sound the same as single solid core runs.

Theoretically I would say it should be the best way to make a larger guage cable but only if the length and quality of every strand is the same.

The studio recordings I consider accurate are really scarce...Maybe they measure more than they actually listen but mostly I'm afraid it's just about making $s........

Unfortunately I have to agree, since the loudness war must be at it's limits, we can only hope that the next in-thing will be quality recordings.
 
;)Unfortunately I have to agree, since the loudness war must be at it's limits, we can only hope that the next in-thing will be quality recordings.

AMEN! The specialty labels make great sounding recordings, but the big studios do have the best performers. I do hope that they do install real quality recording and monitoring equipment someday. A guy can always hope that it could happen :)
 
Hi,

The argument that studio recording venues are using hundredth's of feet of muti-strand is besides the point.
The studio recordings I consider accurate are really scarce...Maybe they measure more than they actually listen but mostly I'm afraid it's just about making $s........

Cheers, ;)

Why is it besides the point? Its not audio in a cable?

How do you know there "accurate". Where you in the room with the musicians when they were recorded? As stated earlier its an illusion.

Recording engineers dont measure anything when they record except level and sometimes phase for mono compatability.
 
Soongsc, you have hit on a very effective combination. Why? Mostly probably because of skin effect. It can be shown that wire larger than 22 ga. effects the high frequencies in a measurable way, due to skin effect.
Why isolation between 24 ga strands works, must be because there is 'some' strand jumping of the electrons, as well as the physical separation due to the insulation, for the wire to behave more like a bunch of 24 ga wires in parallel, rather than a single 16 ga wire, made of stranded smaller wires. To be sure, stranded wire, of the normal kind, without individual isolation, behaves like the total diameter of the wire thickness. Litz wire appears to be a variation on this, in order to remove certain problems with strictly paralleling isolated wires.
What was interesting during the test was that using all the strands in the CAT5e cable did not improve the situation. The idea to reduce strands came to mind when a cable seller recommend I try a thinner version of their wires. I actually tested from 8 to 2.
 
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