Loudspeaker Advice Please

[Jaanos]

Hi everyone! First post….

Ok, so I have decided to build a set of speakers. It will be my first speaker project but I want it to last me many years so I am hoping to do it right the first time….. I have built a variety of furniture with wood (worked as a cabinet maker when I left high school) and being an engineer I would like to think I am up to the task…. My budget is up to $1500 and I am going to go with a ‘kit’ instead of trying to come up with something original.

What I like so far are:

Scan speak ultimate revelation (http://www.solen.ca/v1/ssur.htm)
Seas Thor (http://www.solen.ca/v1/thor.htm)
Zaph ZRT (http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZRT.html)
Premium 33 (http://www.audiocomponents.nl/speakers/peerless/premium/peerless-premium_eng.htm)

All are floor-standers, 2 or 2.5 way. There is plenty of info on the thor’s and a little on the ZRT but I cannot find any info on the Premium 33 or the Ultimate Revelation……. Has anyone built either of these? I have scoured the net for opinions but cannot find any……..

I auditioned some locally made speakers here in Brisbane, Australia (they both used peerless tweeters and woofers) One was an MTM with dual 5.5in woofers another was also an MTM with dual 8in woofers and the third was a TM with a single 8in. I liked the MTM with 5.5in woofers the best (especially when paired with a sub) as the others seemed to lack much of the mid-range but were better with bass (without the sub). Anyway, is this a common trait of 7-8in woofers? Or is it possible that the ‘ZRT’ will sound great for midrange as well as bass? Or would the dual 5.5in revelators in the “ultimate revelation” deliver ‘better’ midrange with similar bass response??? I plan on building a sub also so slightly less bass is ok as long as the midrange is improved.

Sorry if this is a stupid or unanswerable question; I don’t know very much about the whole audio thing just yet…..

I plan on building the boxes out of mdf then encasing them in real wood panels – veneering is also an option but I think it will be less hassle just spending the extra on real wood and going that way….. What do you all think about that? There are many different opinions as to how to best apply veneer and some people say unless you have vacume press not to even bother!!

Any suggestions on what wood will be cheap, easy to work with and look ok? (I am in Australia…) I plan on staining them very dark to suit the rest of my living room.

Thank you all in advance!! : )

 

[ScottG]

Out of his *many* projects:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm

This is the design he likes best (overall) so far:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/JA8008.htm

It looks simplistic.. even mundane, nor does it measure superbly.. BUT its very efficient when compared to most loudspeakers, and that often translates into something extra you won't find in any boutique shop.

Note however that he is planning on altering the design via some additional bass drivers:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/speakertalk.htm

..so it might be advantageous to wait a bit for the "augmented" version.

Here is another builders results:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/JA8008_Liudas.htm

..and here is yet another builder's impression of the mid-bass driver Troels designed:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/JA8008_response.htm

Veneer-wise *dark* (my pick):

Ebony Macassar premium grade:

http://www.oakwoodveneer.com/samples/samples3.html

http://www.salksound.com/gallery-votm-0906-2.html

 

[Iain McNeill]

IMHO, a well executed 2.5way will always beat well executed 2way, especially when you can reduce the size of the midrange.

You should check out Andy Graddons work/threads, he's just round the corner from you, right, and talks some sense!


[yeah I know, you Ozzies sound like you're local but really you're thousands of miles apart.]

 

[gainphile]

Or perhaps a simple pair of Hawthorne Iris on open baffle?

 

[sreten]

Hi,

Some rethinking is required as you say you plan on building a sub .....

For what purpose ? ..... the bass end of any system is the most
expensive part, in real estate, cabinet size, drivers etc ... and
2.5 ways are typically not built to go with a subwoofer, unless
its of the HT variety and not used for music.

The Thor I'd say is too expensive for what you get.
The SSUR appears to ignore baffle step as far as I can tell.

But how does the sub come into the picture,
what amplification and filtering will be used ?

/sreten.

 

[Jaanos]

Hi, thanks for the replies,

Sreten, I would like the sub for Home Theater but I also really like the sound of heavy bass…….
I am only really basing this on my limited experience with the few loudspeakers I have listened to, if I can build a set for stereo music that do not require a sub that would be great!!

So would you recommend the ZRT over my other picks??

I have looked at troels JA8008 and it looks good too……….

As far as an amp is concerned; I do not have a worthy one for these speakers so that is also on the list. I have read a few reviews on Onkyo’s and Yamaha’s new HT receivers that apparently deliver good stereo music as well….. I would like to spend around $500-800 on an amplifier.

Do you think I will get a HT receiver that is good enough for stereo music at this price, or should I go for a dedicated stereo amp?

Thanks again!!

 

[ScottG]

I would like to spend around $500-800 on an amplifier.

This would go along perfectly with the Troels design..

http://www.audiodesignguide.com/New2A3/new2A3.html

(..kind'a like skipping "hifi" altogether and going directly to "ultrafi".)

 

[Jaanos]

ScottG,

Looks like a nice amp for not much outlay but I am probably going to buy the amp pre-assembled, this time around at least....

Thanks for the link tho!

http://www.audiodesignguide.com/New2A3/new2A3.html

 

[sreten]

Hmmm.......

Single ended valve amplifier (5W!) versus (100W) Jap HT amplifiers .......

FWIW this is a more intelligent design IMO :
http://www.lundahl.se/claus_b_se.html

Back to reality, 5W or 10W is simply not enough to reproduce music
with any decent bass content at an acceptable level with what you
would call a standard 2-way.

Conversely driving your average 2-way hard with more than ~ 100W
will get you into bass power handling issues unless they are filtered.

YMMV and your room size. For max output a sealed standmount ZRT
+ subwoofer with HT amplifier is an option. Then again the ZRT in
the double volume vented floorstanding mode tuned to 30Hz in
the right room might not need a subwoofer (for music) at all.

/sreten.

P.S. If quantity is important as well as quality checkout some of the designs
at HTguide : http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39

 

[ScottG]

For an inexpensive design:

http://undefinition.googlepages.com/diy-aethers

For commercial amplifiers the predecessor to this particular amplifier always impressed me (..NOT their other models):

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/nad_c315bee.htm

And here is an easier way to get into DIY loudspeakers:

http://www.soundstage.com/diwhy/diwhy200804.htm

 

[KS]

And here is an easier way to get into DIY loudspeakers:

http://www.soundstage.com/diwhy/diwhy200804.htm [/B]

Or, my choice, GR-Research's new Neo-2X, also put into the Parts Express cabinet or your 14L (0.5 cu. ft.) cabinet with the same front baffle size.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=54382.0

Check GR's version of a Rythmik servo sub, either sealed enclosure or open baffle.
http://gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=139
"must pull self away from sweet spot to write this: AWESOME. Far out it's... perfection."
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=56491.20

 

[Jaanos]

Thanks for all the replies!!

Has anyone heard the Usher 8945P 7" / Peerless HDS 1" MTM on Jays speaker building page?? Or the two way version? They both definately look the goods as far as I know!!??

http://www.geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/Usher_MTM/Usher_MTM.htm

So many options........ wish I could listen to a few of them first!

Keep the opinions coming please!!

 

[R-Carpenter]

Never heard J's speakers or HDS but 8945P is an excellent driver. I actually like it more then 7'' carbon fiber scan speaks.

 

[Jaanos]

So I think i have narrowed it down to either the ZRT or the Usher 8945P 7" / Peerless HDS 1" MTM or TM.......

I am amazed to think I can build a speaker for under a grand that will compete with one of B&W's top of the line offerings as sugested here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...298#post1524298

Does anyone have an opinion on the Scan Speak 18W8531G Revelator woofer used in the ZRT when compared to the Usher 8945P? I know they have been described as very similar but Would the ZRT sound as good or better than Jays usher design?

Is the Scan Speak 6600 AirCirc tweeter comprable to the peerles HDS?

What about cross overs? One major advantage for me is the pre-assembled cross overs available for the ZRT but at a cost of course......

I know all of this is just personal opinions and I am not after "the final word" if you know what I mean - I think I have to pick between two designs that are both going to be fantastic but I need some help cos I am on the fence at the moment!!

Jays TM design will run about $500 in drivers and x-over components whilst the ZRT is $999 for assembled x-overs and drivers...... (I may have just answered my own question there!!)

Thanks again in advance!!

 

[milen007]

Thanks for all the replies!!

Has anyone heard the Usher 8945P 7" / Peerless HDS 1" MTM on Jays speaker building page?? Or the two way version? They both definately look the goods as far as I know!!??

http://www.geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/Usher_MTM/Usher_MTM.htm

So many options........ wish I could listen to a few of them first!

Keep the opinions coming please!!

I havent hear the design above. But i have build Usher 8945P /9950 2 ways as suggested by the website owner above. it smokes my spendor S3/5 way behind.

check out my threat http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121079

 

[sreten]

S

Jays TM design will run about $500 in drivers and x-over
components whilst the ZRT is $999 for assembled x-overs and
drivers...... (I may have just answered my own question there!!)

Hi,

Yes you have. Zaphs design uses the best drivers he can find
available, it is not cheap. It you compare it to the $350 SR71
kit it is fairly obvious which is best and which the best value.

I havent hear the design above. But i have build Usher 8945P /9950 2 ways as suggested by the website owner above. it smokes my spendor S3/5 way behind.

FWIW most decent full sized speakers will "smoke" miniatures.
Its simply not a level playing field, miniatures are compromised.
Proper addition of a subwoofer helps a lot, but you are still
stuck with lowish efficiency and limited maximum output.

/sreten.

 

[Dave Bullet]

Hi Jaanos,

If you are going with Jay's 8945P/810921 MTM then you might want to check this link for a possible list of "local" suppliers for Usher drivers:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125199

I priced shipping 2 8945P's and 2 tweeters from Parts Express to NZ -> USD$164 shipping! (let alone duty and GST).

Note: I have not bought from any links provided above so cavaet emptor.

Cheers,
DAvid.

 

[Jaanos]

Thanks Dave,

Yeah I got an estimate of around $150 to Brisbane for the ZRT kit. No Duty on items under $1000 though which is good.

The problem is; Parts Express dont sell Peerless tweeters and Madisound dont sell Usher!!

Anyone know of a store in the States or Canada (or closer to home ) that sells both drivers??

Failing that I could go with the 9950 that milen007 has used...

I would rather stick with Jays original design though as it seems to be pretty spot on.... unless you all think it would be comparable...

Dave, did you end up using the Indonesian supplier at all or still finalising design?

Starting to get a little stir crazy and just want to start building!! Have spent so many hours researching if i had been working I would probably have the cash for a killer set of ‘commercials’ by now!! (No fun in that though! )

 

[qwad]

hi, peerless tweeters are available locally from WES components in sydney [ps: they also do the dynaudio drivers as well], though you would still have to source the ushers from indonesia, hope this helps, cheers TC

 

[R-Carpenter]

How big and what shape is your room?