Speaking of coaxials, I've had some interest to try something like this, Oberton 15NCX
15NCX
15NCX
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
high freq beam with 400 or 700 Hz 48 db/oct. low pass?
in a sense
a very w i d e sense how so?
You mean that in result of not being a sphere etc. human head gets asymmetrical?
No, most likely he placed the midrange and tweeter to (almost) ear level because if they are at the floor level too the image stays allways on the floor
not necessarily - as usual the proof of the pudding is in the eating - shorter Carlsson's designs, or even the Snell Type One - its problem for some listeners was that the soundstage was a bit lower but certainly not that "the image stays always at the floor level", not all reviewers noticed any problem at all, example here
designs with a midwoofer on top, firing up to the ceiling <2 kHz, without any reflecting elements, were flooders - what else?
they were not floor coupled but they were flooders anyway
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how so? there is a wavefront, there is a reflective surface - how no reflection??
my argument is about onset, the first 90 degrees of a wave
Interesting is with this Tannoy coaxial the effect is not so noticeable while moving around
TANNOY Devon HPD 315A perfect restored by KENRICK SOUND????? ??? - YouTube
By the way, those Japanese videos are great
- Elias
About the localisation in the median plane:
Individual differences of sound-localization ability on median plane
Proceedings of 20th International Congress on Acoustics, ICA 2010
Takeo Funabashi, Yuko Watanabe, Tatsuya Shibata, and Hareo Hamada
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So we can say, if you are lucky (or unlucky depending on the point of view) and having a specific pinna shape you can hardly localise sounds in the median plane at all.
Individual differences of sound-localization ability on median plane
Proceedings of 20th International Congress on Acoustics, ICA 2010
Takeo Funabashi, Yuko Watanabe, Tatsuya Shibata, and Hareo Hamada
Quote:
So we can say, if you are lucky (or unlucky depending on the point of view) and having a specific pinna shape you can hardly localise sounds in the median plane at all.
Interesting is with this Tannoy coaxial the effect is not so noticeable while moving around
TANNOY Devon HPD 315A perfect restored by KENRICK SOUND????? ??? - YouTube
By the way, those Japanese videos are great
- Elias
It's still there - most of the youtube never gets to a point where it breaks the gradient (..you can't see it because of the dust-cap). Only at about 2:30 does he really move that far off-axis. I hear it easily with my eyes closed when it happens. Still, not quite as noticeable - however..
Additionally:
1. the track doesn't have a heavy mono-emphasis compared to My Rainbow Race (which also happens to be a very "dry" recording), and
2. the tannoy crossover doesn't extend quite as low in freq. as the JBL, and
3. that JBL is particularly good IMO (..though lacking midrange clarity and tone below the 2" compression driver). The particular Tannoy has a bit better tone in the mids, but it's otherwise out-classed.
Yes, Kenrick Sound overall does a nice job with those youtubes, thanks in large part to the Rodes stereo mic and a stable ring-mount for the camera. A fair bit of the music he uses is pretty good to IMO (and quite diverse as well).
Blauert cites a similar phenomenon in "Spatial Hearing". Some people could hear better with other people's pinnas.
In the study I referenced they found 2 out of 10 (= 20%) people cannot localise sounds in the median plane. And this is due to differences in pinna shapes.
I have said before that some people have "moulding defects" in their perception system. This study serves as a proof of that statement.
I strongly think that pinna has influence of high freq localisation in the horisontal plane as well, for some people but not necessarily for all. This is the reason, I think, why I can perceive tweeters as sound sources in normal speakers. Not every person can perceive them in the same way as sound sources. This is most likely due to differences in pinna shapes.
- Elias
..Elias said: "in this configuration".
In that configuration at 400 Hz the floor acts like it's part of the baffle.. How often do you have a lower freq. reflection off of (and sourced from) the baffle? There will however be a diffraction issue that will raise the intensity at the junction between actual baffle and floor - quite possibly enough so that it's more than 2db higher than the driver source (at the same vertical plane).
I sometimes think that Roy Allison's floor "dip" is nothing more than the natural baffle-step loss coupled with some slightly lower freq. gain via that floor diffraction. Lowering the mid-bass driver to the floor essentially pushes the gain from diffraction up to the point of the baffle-step loss - essentially filling in that dip.
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Not so fast.
"Therefore results of the analysis suggest that individual differences of
localization ability were primarily related to the first principal component of the pinna shape."
Really, they should have modified the pinna shape of those who couldn't perform the localization to see if it made a difference..
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You are suggesting there is another mechanism to perceive floor reflection than high freq pinna cues or mid-low freq ITD cues (head pivot) ?
Your proposal is solely a monaural cue ? What is it then ?
And how floor reflection differs from ceiling reflection regarding this 'new cue' ?
who - me??? am I suggesting???
again - please see:
Francis Rumsey, Tim McCormick "Sound and Recording"
Linkwitz's 2009 AES Paper
Human Systems Integration Division @ NASA Ames - Projects
http://www2.ph.ed.ac.uk/teaching/course-notes/documents/67/1569-SoundLocalisation1.pdf
it is not that "I am suggesting" "somethig new" - it is in the literature and research
not necessarily monaural, perhaps it's an ITD cue - but not ITD of the first wavefront but ITD of the floor reflected wavefront
I have already explained above.
good question
perhaps the explanation can be the fact that "ceilings" are ..er ..very uncommon in the fields or in the woods
OTOH the ground reflection, as one guy has aptly put it:
Re: [Sursound] Distance perception
(BTW - an interesting guy this Eng. Jörn Nettingsmeier, he works in ambisonics, WFS etc.: stackingdwarves.net)
perhaps that's why our auditory system is locked on the ground/floor reflection but disregards the ceiling reflection (in the time domain)
furthermore pinna cues in the median plane seem to be not very reliable - what follows from the research You have quoted
so we have this ground plane triangulation
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meanwhile...
another flooder approach, similar to smaller Allison speakers (ie. these are not floor coupled speakers) - Dick Olsher's CBAE - "ceiling boundary ambience enhacement":
Tip #11
Magic Cube Loudspeaker Kit (without cabinets)
interesting
I remember visiting Olsher's website many years ago, even before starting stereolit experiments and long before the flooder idea was born
I forgot about it later, regretably now some content of the website is missing
another flooder approach, similar to smaller Allison speakers (ie. these are not floor coupled speakers) - Dick Olsher's CBAE - "ceiling boundary ambience enhacement":
Tip #11
Magic Cube Loudspeaker Kit (without cabinets)
interesting
I remember visiting Olsher's website many years ago, even before starting stereolit experiments and long before the flooder idea was born
I forgot about it later, regretably now some content of the website is missing
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But ITD for direct sound and for floor reflection are the same, cone of confusion, no difference between them.
Unless head is pivoted sideways, which in my test revealed the speaker in the floor. But then the cue is ITD from the direct sound.