dviswa said:
I have a set of Alpha 15s that will get the full treatment before we stuff them into the baffle )well maybe, if Chris gets the baffles done before i get the drivers done they will likely get installed.
From work i just did up some Silver Iris, i expect significant improvements.
dave
Yes, soongc did some work on JX92, I hope he chimes in here.jkeny said:
Dave,planet10 said:
Yes, I would love to hear your results on Alpha 15. Chris, please, hurry up
My only little nit I am picking about your work on Silver Iris is that it is a coaxial driver which operates across most of the audible spectrum, not so my Alpha 15, it is strictly woofer. Well, you are the big guru, me just a noob.
I am eager to learn how Enabl helped Alpha 15.
Dinesh
BTW, I was also very interested in Bud's post about the GR M & W 130 drives and how impressed he was with these both before & after EnABL. He mentioned that they were in his top 5 speakers - I wonder could he say what the other 4 were?
As the GRs are so cheap I was thinking of buying a pair for experimentation - any thoughts on the other M130 models in the range M130-16 (16 ohm version) & M130x ( a stronger motor).
As the GRs are so cheap I was thinking of buying a pair for experimentation - any thoughts on the other M130 models in the range M130-16 (16 ohm version) & M130x ( a stronger motor).
All and sundry,
When I am finished with the Beta 8 drivers I will post the various patterns and my reasons for using them. dlr is as welcome here as anyone else and after conferring with those in the community who make their living from treating drivers with EnABL, I will or will not divulge how I go about finding and solving the sorts of problems the Beta 8 provides. I will say that this is quite an impressive driver without any treatment, not in my top five but much better than I expected it to be. Those who have heard the staggering performance of Gary Pimm's large, high efficiency speaker system, will certainly agree
Top five drivers, after EnABL. #1 Fostex F 200 A, #2 Lowther PM6A 16 ohm silver voice coil, #3 Fostex F 120 A, #4 Fostex F127eN, #5 GR Research M130 16 ohm.
The first two are a real difference in taste. The F 200 A has extraordinary depth of information and tonal nuance. The first time that I have heard a Stradivarius in replay, that sounded like what I expect them to sound like from having heard the three I have been exposed to. The Lowther PM6 A 16 is only slightly less detailed, not quite as well nuanced, vastly more musical in dynamics and better able to express musical beauty.
A fairly large step down in detail brings up the F120 A. Still, a lot of information depth here, with almost as good a tonal nuance as the F200 A, with a very similar "family" character.
The Fostex F 127eN has the same relationship to the F120 as the Lowther does to the F200 A. As it comes from Planet10 it is smooth, musical, capable of extraordinary beauty and very impressive with musical dynamics and depth of detail.
GR Research M130 and W130. Both are articulate and capable of great delicacy and musical nuance. These do have considerable depth of information, only slightly less than #'s 3 & 4, but are better with musical dynamics than either one. Holds position #5 only because of it's slightly darker overall tonal balance. For value vs performance these are extraordinary drivers and I would happily recommend them to anyone and then, most especially, for a multi driver set up, as you would expect to find in a home theater / music system.
For woofers, the major change is a removal of noise. As an example, a large group of Bass Violas playing any number of fast, loud and intricate musical passages, often are portrayed as variable rumbles with instruments discernible within, but clotted by an overall bass buzz. Treated, the buzz disappears, the instruments are left, and their contribution to the information about the space they are playing in becomes more available. In addition, the room the drivers are playing into ceases to have objectionable levels of bass enhancement or suck out, depending upon what position you happen to be in. All of this will become more noticeable with higher crossover frequencies, but even when used on a sub woofer the effects are quite noticeable.
Bud
When I am finished with the Beta 8 drivers I will post the various patterns and my reasons for using them. dlr is as welcome here as anyone else and after conferring with those in the community who make their living from treating drivers with EnABL, I will or will not divulge how I go about finding and solving the sorts of problems the Beta 8 provides. I will say that this is quite an impressive driver without any treatment, not in my top five but much better than I expected it to be. Those who have heard the staggering performance of Gary Pimm's large, high efficiency speaker system, will certainly agree
Top five drivers, after EnABL. #1 Fostex F 200 A, #2 Lowther PM6A 16 ohm silver voice coil, #3 Fostex F 120 A, #4 Fostex F127eN, #5 GR Research M130 16 ohm.
The first two are a real difference in taste. The F 200 A has extraordinary depth of information and tonal nuance. The first time that I have heard a Stradivarius in replay, that sounded like what I expect them to sound like from having heard the three I have been exposed to. The Lowther PM6 A 16 is only slightly less detailed, not quite as well nuanced, vastly more musical in dynamics and better able to express musical beauty.
A fairly large step down in detail brings up the F120 A. Still, a lot of information depth here, with almost as good a tonal nuance as the F200 A, with a very similar "family" character.
The Fostex F 127eN has the same relationship to the F120 as the Lowther does to the F200 A. As it comes from Planet10 it is smooth, musical, capable of extraordinary beauty and very impressive with musical dynamics and depth of detail.
GR Research M130 and W130. Both are articulate and capable of great delicacy and musical nuance. These do have considerable depth of information, only slightly less than #'s 3 & 4, but are better with musical dynamics than either one. Holds position #5 only because of it's slightly darker overall tonal balance. For value vs performance these are extraordinary drivers and I would happily recommend them to anyone and then, most especially, for a multi driver set up, as you would expect to find in a home theater / music system.
For woofers, the major change is a removal of noise. As an example, a large group of Bass Violas playing any number of fast, loud and intricate musical passages, often are portrayed as variable rumbles with instruments discernible within, but clotted by an overall bass buzz. Treated, the buzz disappears, the instruments are left, and their contribution to the information about the space they are playing in becomes more available. In addition, the room the drivers are playing into ceases to have objectionable levels of bass enhancement or suck out, depending upon what position you happen to be in. All of this will become more noticeable with higher crossover frequencies, but even when used on a sub woofer the effects are quite noticeable.
Bud
I have always used it to cover the paint blocks I use on cabinets, but never as the finish coat or a complete over coat. I doubt you would have any problems with it, unless you were in a rain storm in your home or a sudden alcohol atmosphere in the same location, but there might be some hazing during monsoon season.....
I have always placed a pattern strip around the box periphery, about half way back from the front plate to back plate. Another on the back plate and more on all four edges of the corners of the sides, at right angles to that one in the middle of each panel, making a capital I on each panel. Then microgloss over each of those pattern sets.
All of this because I wasn't smart enough to use tape. Something I will be exploring on a set of Magnaplanar's in the near future.
Bud
I have always placed a pattern strip around the box periphery, about half way back from the front plate to back plate. Another on the back plate and more on all four edges of the corners of the sides, at right angles to that one in the middle of each panel, making a capital I on each panel. Then microgloss over each of those pattern sets.
All of this because I wasn't smart enough to use tape. Something I will be exploring on a set of Magnaplanar's in the near future.
Bud
I painted some micro gloss over a port EnABL pattern (PVC duct tape blocks).
Astounding increase in bass performance!
I'm kicking myself for not doing it earlier.
I'm now convinced that painting micro gloss over all patterns used on ports, baffles and cabinets is a must do to reap the full benefits.
Painting the entire cabinet inside and outside should be very rewarding.
Time to see if I can buy some large tins...
Cheers,
Alex
Astounding increase in bass performance!
I'm kicking myself for not doing it earlier.
I'm now convinced that painting micro gloss over all patterns used on ports, baffles and cabinets is a must do to reap the full benefits.
Painting the entire cabinet inside and outside should be very rewarding.
Time to see if I can buy some large tins...
Cheers,
Alex
Having read over most of all the EnABL threads, I have a few questions:
1. Is Damar as good as Micro Gloss? I just got myself some Damar this evening and am eager to use it. Unfortunately, Micro Gloss is not even heard of in my country, and import rules are a hassle if I have to buy the kit.
2. Can Fabric paint or Acrylic paint for Glass be used instead of Flat paint or Duct Tape?
3. If the answer to Q.1 above is positive, can I safely experiment with wool cone drivers and Fostex Banana Pulp cone in the 168ESigma?
Thanks to all who may wish to respond.
1. Is Damar as good as Micro Gloss? I just got myself some Damar this evening and am eager to use it. Unfortunately, Micro Gloss is not even heard of in my country, and import rules are a hassle if I have to buy the kit.
2. Can Fabric paint or Acrylic paint for Glass be used instead of Flat paint or Duct Tape?
3. If the answer to Q.1 above is positive, can I safely experiment with wool cone drivers and Fostex Banana Pulp cone in the 168ESigma?
Thanks to all who may wish to respond.
Alex from Oz said:
sorry, but this is nonsens.
actually, i am a "believer", i have already enabled a few drivers myself and i know it "works", at least most of the time the driver sounds better, for whatever reason. but... come on, you are telling that it makes a difference in bass performance if i paint a little bit micro gloss over an enabl patter that is painted on a port? no, please, don't tell me: just try it, not this time. please, think about what you are saying.
BudP, if you are reading this, can you tell me your honest thought's, please. thank you very much in advance.
sincerely,
mike
Sam,
Unfortunately I have yet to find a substitute for the Gloss. I am sure it is a commercial product that Micro Scale re-bottles as I was once told I could purchase it in 55 gallon drums, from the manufacturer. This was a number of years ago however. Perhaps you should offer to import the products for micro scale, I suspect there are model builders in your country who would appreciate their full line of products.
As for the paint, I suspect that anything with enough solid filler that it will raise a proud surface will work. After all, tape seems to be working well for some folks and toothpaste has been used as a tool, in an audio lab, for making the blocks for experimental purposes. So, anything compatible with the Gloss should work, and I have yet to find a surface the gloss would not adhere to. Polypropylene has been the most difficult to date, requiring a light sanding, with 2k grit paper, to provide some "tooth".
Bud
Unfortunately I have yet to find a substitute for the Gloss. I am sure it is a commercial product that Micro Scale re-bottles as I was once told I could purchase it in 55 gallon drums, from the manufacturer. This was a number of years ago however. Perhaps you should offer to import the products for micro scale, I suspect there are model builders in your country who would appreciate their full line of products.
As for the paint, I suspect that anything with enough solid filler that it will raise a proud surface will work. After all, tape seems to be working well for some folks and toothpaste has been used as a tool, in an audio lab, for making the blocks for experimental purposes. So, anything compatible with the Gloss should work, and I have yet to find a surface the gloss would not adhere to. Polypropylene has been the most difficult to date, requiring a light sanding, with 2k grit paper, to provide some "tooth".
Bud
Mike,
In my experience, what Alex is describing is correct. The pattern on a diaphragm provides bass notes with greater clarity, expressed in a faster rise time, longer sustain and less "noise" in the pure tone. In addition, the bass, out in the listening area, has a uniformity of propagation that is not available without the treatment.
Since it is now fairly obvious that the pattern does not affect the activity of a diaphragm, all that is left is that it eliminates the nonuniform transformation of energy, from the diaphragm into the air. To get an idea of what this nonuniform energy transform looks like, go here
http://youtube.com/user/shermph
and view the Resonance 1 through 4 movies.
To my knowledge, no one has duplicated these with an EnABL'd driver, so I do not claim that the pattern would suppress this activity either. However, the movies do indicate that the energy coming off of a surface and producing pressure waves, at an angle of incidence to the original energy, into adjacent air, does not form perfectly flat waves of energy in the air. EnABL'd drivers do appear to produce this effect, in the adjacent air, in an audible fashion. Might not be related to the Resonance movies, but I can draw a logical inference from the audible effects.
If diaphragms will exhibit the effect you have already experienced, why would you find that the mouth of a tube would also provide this effect, improbable? Adding the gloss coat does provide additional benefit to just the pattern, without altering the type of change made, when applied to a radiating diaphragm. However the diaphragm is just an inert focusing lens, as is the mouth of a bass port, no matter it's shape. The only active device in the entire event is the voice coil, everything else is a passive reactor, with attendant losses and non linearity. So it seems more likely to me, by inference, that the gloss coat would aid the pattern, as applied to a port or baffle edge, than otherwise.
That EnABL seems to correct for the final non linearity is no more surprising to me than that most other non linearity has also been very well corrected, as is evidenced by just how good the drivers sound, once relieved of their last nonlinear transformation of energy into adjacent air.
Hope this helps you wrap your head around this unusual activity. It isn't magic, I promise. However, I do believe Arthur C Clarke had some words to the effect that, any sufficiently advanced technology is going to look like magic, to someone who does not yet have the information, appropriate to comprehension of the magic as just another tool, in the tool belt.
Bud
In my experience, what Alex is describing is correct. The pattern on a diaphragm provides bass notes with greater clarity, expressed in a faster rise time, longer sustain and less "noise" in the pure tone. In addition, the bass, out in the listening area, has a uniformity of propagation that is not available without the treatment.
Since it is now fairly obvious that the pattern does not affect the activity of a diaphragm, all that is left is that it eliminates the nonuniform transformation of energy, from the diaphragm into the air. To get an idea of what this nonuniform energy transform looks like, go here
http://youtube.com/user/shermph
and view the Resonance 1 through 4 movies.
To my knowledge, no one has duplicated these with an EnABL'd driver, so I do not claim that the pattern would suppress this activity either. However, the movies do indicate that the energy coming off of a surface and producing pressure waves, at an angle of incidence to the original energy, into adjacent air, does not form perfectly flat waves of energy in the air. EnABL'd drivers do appear to produce this effect, in the adjacent air, in an audible fashion. Might not be related to the Resonance movies, but I can draw a logical inference from the audible effects.
If diaphragms will exhibit the effect you have already experienced, why would you find that the mouth of a tube would also provide this effect, improbable? Adding the gloss coat does provide additional benefit to just the pattern, without altering the type of change made, when applied to a radiating diaphragm. However the diaphragm is just an inert focusing lens, as is the mouth of a bass port, no matter it's shape. The only active device in the entire event is the voice coil, everything else is a passive reactor, with attendant losses and non linearity. So it seems more likely to me, by inference, that the gloss coat would aid the pattern, as applied to a port or baffle edge, than otherwise.
That EnABL seems to correct for the final non linearity is no more surprising to me than that most other non linearity has also been very well corrected, as is evidenced by just how good the drivers sound, once relieved of their last nonlinear transformation of energy into adjacent air.
Hope this helps you wrap your head around this unusual activity. It isn't magic, I promise. However, I do believe Arthur C Clarke had some words to the effect that, any sufficiently advanced technology is going to look like magic, to someone who does not yet have the information, appropriate to comprehension of the magic as just another tool, in the tool belt.
Bud
Samuel Jayaraj said:
G'day Samuel,
1. I have painted just Micro Gloss (no EnABL) on drivers that I had already coated with Damar.
The result was so stunning that I will not be using Damar again.
Micro Gloss is an integral part of the EnABL process on speaker cones.
2. Duct tape is not used for treating speaker cones - only ports, baffles and cabinets.
- - - - - - - - - - -
LilMik said:
G'day Mike,
Firstly, thankyou for questioning what is being posted.
No doubt there is a silent majority who share your scepticism.
These are bold claims, but easy to test.
Please read my description of how I treat ports in Post #61.
I do not use paint for the EnABL pattern in ports.
Up until a couple of days ago I had not used conformal coating either.
Applying micro gloss over the tape pattern in the port does impact the bass performance significantly.
This is a logical progression of my ongoing exploration of EnABL on ports and cabinets.
I've detailed my approach so that others can explore this for themselves if they are interested in doing so.
Cheers,
Alex