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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 20th October 2011, 09:36 PM   #461
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Nice to see the Vifa discovered in the US too. It has passed some German tests with flying colors, very low distortion for this small size.

PE does have it: Vifa TC9FD-18-08 3-1/2" Full Range Paper Cone Woofer 264-1062 .

/Erling
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Old 20th October 2011, 10:02 PM   #462
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Thanks for the link! That means everything but the lumber can be bought at P.E.
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Old 20th October 2011, 10:45 PM   #463
ra7 is offline ra7  United States
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Hey Pano and John, thanks so much for this design.

One question, why is the baffle height 28"? Puts the speaker between a floorstander and regular bookshelf. Do you propose standing it on the floor or is it meant to go on a stand bringing the vifa at ear level ~ 36"?

Thanks!
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Old 20th October 2011, 11:04 PM   #464
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Default Baffle height

The Manzanita is intened to be a stand mounted design. 28" provided the best balance of baffle area, but small enough to handle. Need to get the woofer a bit above the rear crossover plate to minimize close reflections at the upper end of the woofers range. Also, getting the woofer off the floor minimizes floor bounce issues. I have found the system to sound the best with the Vifa 38" - 42" off the floor and 48" from the rear wall. Exact baffle height is flexible, but much shorter than 27" and you start effecting the f= and F peak of the Vifa. Not good as the crossover is set for the current dimensions. Hope this info helps.

John
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Old 20th October 2011, 11:15 PM   #465
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Default Manzanita BOM

I've attached a BOM form the shopping cart of both Parts Express and Madisound. The prices are almost the same.
You'll be at under $175 per side for drivers and crossover parts. Not bad for a speaker of this quality. Lumber won't cost you much either.

P.E. does not seem to have a straight 6uF cap, so go with either a 6.2 (as shown in BOM) or a 5.7uF with small values added by ear.

There you have it, it's an easy build that will take you a full afternoon's work if you are slow like me.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf manzanita_BOM-MS.pdf (64.1 KB, 636 views)
File Type: pdf manzanita_BOM-PE.pdf (45.6 KB, 527 views)
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Old 21st October 2011, 01:44 AM   #466
ra7 is offline ra7  United States
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Thanks John. So really, there is no harm in making the baffle 36" tall if one wanted to avoid stands.
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Old 21st October 2011, 01:48 AM   #467
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Yes, there is harm. There is floor bounce that is avoided by the gap between baffle and floor. The tonal balance will be wrong.
Now, you could build legs instead of a stand, and if you cover the baffle and space between the legs with grill cloth, then you'd have a more unified look.
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Old 21st October 2011, 02:16 AM   #468
FOXYE is offline FOXYE  Israel
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Thanks John and Pano for the updates.
What differences in sound compared to the old version?
And what price level of commercial speakers do you think is a competitor?

I have a great 6.8uF capacitor.
can i use it in c1?

There are lots of company manufactures components for crossover, and prices can be very expensive.
What are the best parts to use in the crossover?
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Old 21st October 2011, 02:56 AM   #469
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ra 7

When you are working in the OB format, baffle dimensions become very important especially with a passive crossover set up. There is a direct relationship between the distance from the center of the driver to baffle edges relative to lower frequency response shape. If the distance increases, the driver net efficiency usually increases and will extend lower in frequency. The distance the Vifa is from any given baffle edge effects the roll off point and rate. Part of the bargain is that the crossover electrical function and the baffle induced mechanical roll off function combine to acheive a particular total roll off. All of the design elements come together to form a desired outcome and if you change baffle dimensions too much, the magic quickly goes away.
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Old 21st October 2011, 03:09 AM   #470
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FOXYE, you can use a 6.8 uf as a starting point. You actually may prefer that. So many variables in room effects, operating distance from a rear or side wall, listening tastes, associated equipment and all the rest that your 6.8 could be what you need.

However, I would suspect that you will find that much cap will provide a muddy - congested quality. Do not want to discourage you from experimenting. That is part of the fun of this design is that it is easy to play and learn.

As far as the best part(s) issue, what Pano has listed from PE and Madisound should work well. My recomendation is you start with these parts or equal and see what you think. I am sure there is room for improvement. I have tried to keep the project costs low and simple, so there have been some corners cut. One could spend $100 or more for a large gauge air core inductor for example. But you reach a point of diminishing return pretty quickly. As for how the Manzanita as presented would compete performance vs cost in the retail market, that is very difficult to say. One could easily spend $1,000 per pair for a commercial offering and not do as well. But it is not a fair comparision as the commercial offering has a lot of cosmetic and distribution costs the Manzanita does not have to carry.
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