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Old 17th October 2007, 02:13 PM   #1
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Talking C37 similar material

hi,

C37 was very expensive in Europe.

This pair was special version because was use C37 similar material Volin Vanish treatment already.

C37 violin Vanish, was famous in internet & most speaker user ( Most was full range user) was use this paint for its speaker driver cone. ( U can see lowther & AER in internet)
For OPT now I saw two brand in Interent was Audionote & Audio-consulting now is using in their products.

I was interested for this so I research for this data & found Newsday most ( over 95% low, Mid & mid-high level small violin, Cello was MADE IN CHINA. Most Famous factory in China such as Benjing to buy this vanish. The told me that this vanish was separated into Oil base, Oil + methyl Alcoholic base.

C37 similar volin vanish was made by extract of Shellac (Lakeh), Resin, frankincense, Commiphora Myrrha ,Myrrha, Olibanum Plant base) etc Natural extract, pre-heat to Estimate temperature to form UP! This Natural Extract will seperate alcoholic base or Oil base. Most Volin was use Oil base but need longer time to dry up. Alcoholic base will offer U easy to increase or decrease( use alcoholic to be a Solvent ) to remove excess paint. So I choose Alcoholic Base & half Oil + Alcoholic base back to test & coating into solid wood horn & compare the sound performace about them.( with or Without C37 similar violin vanish piant.)
Also this C37 for user that he can paint by themselves. ( standard was 5 layers).

Take a look for the C37 similar paint in solid fine ebony horn mouth.

Now is send to one of my friend test with TAD TD-4001.

If this C37 similar test will good performace. diyers will had cheap products to use, not need to suffer with expensive material.

thx

thomas


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Old 17th October 2007, 02:16 PM   #2
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more,

every solid fine ebony horn mouth paint 5 layers of C37 similar Violin vanish. why I said similar C37 because probably my format of violin vanish was different as c37 although they all be same paint for wood of full range speaker.

thx

thomas


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Old 17th October 2007, 03:13 PM   #3
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Thanks for the heads up -& lovely finish BTW!
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Old 17th October 2007, 08:39 PM   #4
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Very nice indeed.
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Old 18th October 2007, 08:33 AM   #5
ssmith is offline ssmith  France
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Beautiful finish!

I would be very interested in your recipe -- I live in India and it is possible to source shellac, as well as other plant oil extracts, at a good price.

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Old 18th October 2007, 10:41 AM   #6
SY is offline SY  United States
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FWIW, I analyzed some C37 and found it to be just a mix of two varnishes, presumably off-the-shelf. Nothing special about it at all, other than hype, promotion, and severe gullibility of its advocates. Any similar violin/luthier varnish will give pretty much identical results in your application.
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Old 18th October 2007, 11:41 AM   #7
ssmith is offline ssmith  France
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY
FWIW, I analyzed some C37 and found it to be just a mix of two varnishes, presumably off-the-shelf. Nothing special about it at all, other than hype, promotion, and severe gullibility of its advocates. Any similar violin/luthier varnish will give pretty much identical results in your application.
That analysis would have been the result of
this thread... I guess, though couldn't find the end result analysis bit.

Out of interest, were the contents natural (like shellac) or synthetic (cheapo polyurethene)?

Speaking to musicians about instruments, most do believe that different woods and finishes have a profound effect on how an instrument sounds, with PU-based varnish being seen a real nono. So I can understand too how this would theoretically apply to things like speaker drivers and cabinets. Whether the difference is audible in the hi-fi context, though, I don;t know -- and would not say so unless I did a true A/B blind test, which I cannot be bothered to do.
My gut feeling, however, would be to totally agree with you about the C37 hype and pricing... it's kinda like the whole cable thing, I guess.

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Old 18th October 2007, 11:51 AM   #8
ssmith is offline ssmith  France
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FWIW, here is an interesting read, including a recipe....
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Old 18th October 2007, 12:09 PM   #9
SY is offline SY  United States
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The problem here is that the analogy is stretched beyond reason. A thin shellac layer will have a profound effect on a very thin plate of wood shaped and positioned to resonate. And between different sorts, there will be some subtle tonal differences.

Paint it on a big, thick wooden horn and the effect is minimal.

Paint it on a speaker cone and it will affect mass and breakup in exactly the same way as normal speaker dope. It will change the sound, and since the user just emptied his wallet to buy it, Of Course it will sound magically better than any ordinary finish.

My analysis wasn't detailed enough to totally deformulate (basically, we separated and counted components and got a qualitative idea of what they were by odor and microscopic examination), but it appears to be shellac-based, has a retarder (appears to be linseed oil), and pretty much the same thing as a few cans of guitar varnish that were laying around the shop.
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Old 18th October 2007, 12:33 PM   #10
ssmith is offline ssmith  France
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY
The problem here is that the analogy is stretched beyond reason. A thin shellac layer will have a profound effect on a very thin plate of wood shaped and positioned to resonate. And between different sorts, there will be some subtle tonal differences.
Paint it on a big, thick wooden horn and the effect is minimal.
Makes sense.

Quote:
Originally posted by SY
It will change the sound, and since the user just emptied his wallet to buy it, Of Course it will sound magically better than any ordinary finish.
oooh, you are a cynic.

Quote:
Originally posted by SY
My analysis wasn't detailed enough to totally deformulate (basically, we separated and counted components and got a qualitative idea of what they were by odor and microscopic examination), but it appears to be shellac-based, has a retarder (appears to be linseed oil)...
...as in traditional French polish, and the ingredients used by more traditional classical instrument makers.

Many thanks for the reply!
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