First of all, I'm 23 and have no experience with woodworking whatsoever, and have absolutely no idea how I'd ever go about building anything, which is something I'd very much like to do ASAP. For instance, I've collected 4 Ascendant Avalanche 15's (yes, four of 'em 
), with the intention of hopefully building some massive large-low-tuned enclosures with them. Although I bought them all used (except for one I think), I still paid a pretty hefty price for them, since they're no longer made...around $1200 all together I think. Even then, if I don't end up using them all, they'd definitely be easy to sell on eBay or forums. Regardless, the massive subwoofer(s) project, after well over a year, still remains on the back burner for another large reason...which is that I'm currently in an apartment. 
But I don't plan on being here much longer, and I'm getting really antsy on building something..
Anyway, I have all these ideas and things I'd like to do, but the complete lack of confidence, woodworking experience, and the required tools and equipment is mainly what's holding me back (aside from money). My current obsession is these Radian coaxials, with their available crossovers. ..Although obviously aimed at the professional audio market, they appear to be really attractive in terms of being suitable for hi-fi. In fact, there's already at least one company that I know of, Galante Audio, that used these exact drivers in their designs...but I don't think I'd ever heard of them until recently after discovering these coaxials. It also appears as though Hemp Acoustics modifies these drivers and sells them for much more, although the response graphs on their website appear to be copied from Radian's website. BagEnd also used the 8" coaxials in some studio monitors. I'm also aware of several previous threads on this forum that briefly mention these drivers, but there's really not a whole lot out there. Here are a couple of them:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56298&highlight=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23051&highlight=
Where to get them:
http://www.usspeaker.com/radian index-1.htm#Dual Concentric Coaxial Speakers
Radian 5215B web page, with PDF link:
http://www.radianaudio.com/products/coaxial/15_format.php?viewT=coaxial&viewC=15_format
Radian 5312 web page, with PDF link:
http://www.radianaudio.com/products/coaxial/12_format.php?viewT=coaxial&viewC=12_format
..As for the 8" model, the 5208C is no longer listed on their website, but I did manage to find an older page with specs that I could only get to through Google, but I can't seem to find it now. However, the 508/2B is still listed in another section of their website, which they listed identical specifactions for, but the in-ceiling version has a stamped steel frame. This in-ceiling version is also sold on PartsExpress. HOWEVER, the 5208C is still listed for sale on www.usspeaker.com , which I found out through emailing Radian that this website is their main US supplier. Strangely though, there's no longer a link to specifications for this model on usspeaker.com either, yet it's still for sale...along with a 5212 coaxial, which also must be an older version of the 5312, as it's not listed on the Radian site:
http://www.radianaudio.com/products/ceiling/8_ceiling.php?viewT=ceiling&viewC=8_ceiling
After doing a lot of research on the internet for the last several weeks or more, it appears to me as though all the coaxials offered from Eminence, P.Audio, B&C, Beyma, etc. all have nasty response peaks and dips in the high-end that I wouldn't be able to stand...and opionions found in various places on the net from people who've listened confirm this as well. After examining Radian's specifications and response graphs, it almost seems like any of the previous mentioned drivers wouldn't even be able to compare to the Radians, in terms of overall sound quality.. Which makes me question the accuracy of the response graphs, and how these Radian coaxials were measured. Off-axis response, distortion, or anything else other than what's listed in Radian's PDF's can't be found anywhere...although being a coaxial with 90° dispersion, off-axis response itself is probably very good, at least from the xo point up. And obviously, there's really not a whole lot currently out there as far as opinions go.
I haven't listened to anything in my apartment for several months now.. Instead, I've been going in circles with a bunch of equipment, with the intention of building a nice HT setup...most of it without even bothering to really listen to it, as I keep finding out things and learning more and changing my mind. However, it's all been bought used, so I'm not really losing much if anything at all...except time and sanity..
I currently have a pair of Eminent-Technology LFT8A's sitting in my living room that I've had for like a year or so. Aside from the fact that they require an even larger room than I thought they would, I think I've come to the conclusion that they're just not quite my cup of tea. Being a 3-way hybrid, they're not nearly as bad with placement as other planars I've heard, but still too picky for me. And rather than continuing to go through couches as often as shoes from wearing out the center of the cushions while listening with my head in a vice, I'd much rather not have to pay quite as much attention to such picky placement and all that, and it'd be nice to have the ability to provide other people around me with sound much more similar to what I'm hearing. Aside from that, I've always found a massive soundstage appealing, as well as large planars and what they do...but I think I've realized that it's probably not all I thought it was over the years, and it bugs me a lot when I'm listening to certain material. For example, a guitar string that sounds 6 feet tall, a voice with great depth but a mouth too wide and several feet tall, sound that seems too diffused, extremely rolled off highs, etc. Still though...listening to planars off and on since my dad who tragically passed away a few years ago owned a pair of MMG's when I was a kid, I'm sure I'm probably very used to the sound of planars. I know I'd probably miss the things they do so well, and find anything else to sound harsh and bright in comparison, as this has happened to me many times in the past. However, I think I'm also becoming aware of the disadvantages of these types of speakers, and I'm sure it sounds completely different than what the recording engineer heard when the material was originally produced (I know this is a controversial subject, so I'll won't go there any further). I'm sure many of you reading this know what I'm getting at though, and maybe some can even relate to the way I feel about these speakers. They're great at what they do though. I bought the Eminent-Tech LFT8A's just from reading the vast amount of positive opinions all over the web, and didn't have the opportunity to hear the first. I still liked them though, especially at first, and I still do. However, I don't expect to become financially stable enough to own a room large enough to properly accommodate these large behemoths, if ever. There's too many other possibilities out there to justify trying to enjoy these speakers in smaller rooms, I think...and I know they could sound a lot better than they do. On top of all this, I also think I'd be much more satisfied with any given speaker that I thought sounded good if I built it myself.
Basically, I just want to start building the thoughts that run through my mind all day, sell all this stuff I have laying around here right now, buy some equipment to go with what I've built, and finally stick with it and enjoy it for a while!! I'm hoping that maybe these Radian coaxials would be a good start. With having no experience in actually building anything, my reasons for eyeing this particular option is probably obvious... Mainly, they're coaxials, so no trying to match multiple drivers, etc...and Radian manufactures crossovers that can be purchased to go with them, which would obviously be a tremendous help to me.
While trying not to go any farther from the original topic than I already have thoughout this thread, I plan to power whatever speakers I end up using/buying/building with pro amplifiers for various reasons, with the intention of prossibly 'upgrading' to tubes in the far future when I'm a little older.
Just to kind of give an idea of what's going on, here's just a few of the items I have that I plan on selling: Outlaw Audio Model 990, Eminent Technology LFT-8A, Golden Theater GTX-1, Golden Theater GTX-A, Adcom GFA-555 mkII, Adcom GFA-2535, AudioControl Bijou, ButtKicker BKA1000-4, and the list goes on.
..I guess I'm just asking for any help and/or encouragement that anyone might be able to provide regarding my situation here... whether it be your thoughts on the Radian coaxes, my future subwoofer plans, opinions on the LFT-8's, the equipment I'm selling, or whatever. I'd very much like to build something, and I've wanted to for a long time. I just need some guidance! Do you think this would be a good place to start? Any opinions, suggestions, or comments would be very welcomed.
Apologies for typing so much for so long!
I'll end it here.
~ Brandin
), with the intention of hopefully building some massive large-low-tuned enclosures with them. Although I bought them all used (except for one I think), I still paid a pretty hefty price for them, since they're no longer made...around $1200 all together I think. Even then, if I don't end up using them all, they'd definitely be easy to sell on eBay or forums. Regardless, the massive subwoofer(s) project, after well over a year, still remains on the back burner for another large reason...which is that I'm currently in an apartment. But I don't plan on being here much longer, and I'm getting really antsy on building something..Anyway, I have all these ideas and things I'd like to do, but the complete lack of confidence, woodworking experience, and the required tools and equipment is mainly what's holding me back (aside from money). My current obsession is these Radian coaxials, with their available crossovers. ..Although obviously aimed at the professional audio market, they appear to be really attractive in terms of being suitable for hi-fi. In fact, there's already at least one company that I know of, Galante Audio, that used these exact drivers in their designs...but I don't think I'd ever heard of them until recently after discovering these coaxials. It also appears as though Hemp Acoustics modifies these drivers and sells them for much more, although the response graphs on their website appear to be copied from Radian's website. BagEnd also used the 8" coaxials in some studio monitors. I'm also aware of several previous threads on this forum that briefly mention these drivers, but there's really not a whole lot out there. Here are a couple of them:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56298&highlight=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23051&highlight=
Where to get them:
http://www.usspeaker.com/radian index-1.htm#Dual Concentric Coaxial Speakers
Radian 5215B web page, with PDF link:
http://www.radianaudio.com/products/coaxial/15_format.php?viewT=coaxial&viewC=15_format
Radian 5312 web page, with PDF link:
http://www.radianaudio.com/products/coaxial/12_format.php?viewT=coaxial&viewC=12_format
..As for the 8" model, the 5208C is no longer listed on their website, but I did manage to find an older page with specs that I could only get to through Google, but I can't seem to find it now. However, the 508/2B is still listed in another section of their website, which they listed identical specifactions for, but the in-ceiling version has a stamped steel frame. This in-ceiling version is also sold on PartsExpress. HOWEVER, the 5208C is still listed for sale on www.usspeaker.com , which I found out through emailing Radian that this website is their main US supplier. Strangely though, there's no longer a link to specifications for this model on usspeaker.com either, yet it's still for sale...along with a 5212 coaxial, which also must be an older version of the 5312, as it's not listed on the Radian site:
http://www.radianaudio.com/products/ceiling/8_ceiling.php?viewT=ceiling&viewC=8_ceiling
After doing a lot of research on the internet for the last several weeks or more, it appears to me as though all the coaxials offered from Eminence, P.Audio, B&C, Beyma, etc. all have nasty response peaks and dips in the high-end that I wouldn't be able to stand...and opionions found in various places on the net from people who've listened confirm this as well. After examining Radian's specifications and response graphs, it almost seems like any of the previous mentioned drivers wouldn't even be able to compare to the Radians, in terms of overall sound quality.. Which makes me question the accuracy of the response graphs, and how these Radian coaxials were measured. Off-axis response, distortion, or anything else other than what's listed in Radian's PDF's can't be found anywhere...although being a coaxial with 90° dispersion, off-axis response itself is probably very good, at least from the xo point up. And obviously, there's really not a whole lot currently out there as far as opinions go.
I haven't listened to anything in my apartment for several months now.. Instead, I've been going in circles with a bunch of equipment, with the intention of building a nice HT setup...most of it without even bothering to really listen to it, as I keep finding out things and learning more and changing my mind. However, it's all been bought used, so I'm not really losing much if anything at all...except time and sanity..
I currently have a pair of Eminent-Technology LFT8A's sitting in my living room that I've had for like a year or so. Aside from the fact that they require an even larger room than I thought they would, I think I've come to the conclusion that they're just not quite my cup of tea. Being a 3-way hybrid, they're not nearly as bad with placement as other planars I've heard, but still too picky for me. And rather than continuing to go through couches as often as shoes from wearing out the center of the cushions while listening with my head in a vice, I'd much rather not have to pay quite as much attention to such picky placement and all that, and it'd be nice to have the ability to provide other people around me with sound much more similar to what I'm hearing. Aside from that, I've always found a massive soundstage appealing, as well as large planars and what they do...but I think I've realized that it's probably not all I thought it was over the years, and it bugs me a lot when I'm listening to certain material. For example, a guitar string that sounds 6 feet tall, a voice with great depth but a mouth too wide and several feet tall, sound that seems too diffused, extremely rolled off highs, etc. Still though...listening to planars off and on since my dad who tragically passed away a few years ago owned a pair of MMG's when I was a kid, I'm sure I'm probably very used to the sound of planars. I know I'd probably miss the things they do so well, and find anything else to sound harsh and bright in comparison, as this has happened to me many times in the past. However, I think I'm also becoming aware of the disadvantages of these types of speakers, and I'm sure it sounds completely different than what the recording engineer heard when the material was originally produced (I know this is a controversial subject, so I'll won't go there any further). I'm sure many of you reading this know what I'm getting at though, and maybe some can even relate to the way I feel about these speakers. They're great at what they do though. I bought the Eminent-Tech LFT8A's just from reading the vast amount of positive opinions all over the web, and didn't have the opportunity to hear the first. I still liked them though, especially at first, and I still do. However, I don't expect to become financially stable enough to own a room large enough to properly accommodate these large behemoths, if ever. There's too many other possibilities out there to justify trying to enjoy these speakers in smaller rooms, I think...and I know they could sound a lot better than they do. On top of all this, I also think I'd be much more satisfied with any given speaker that I thought sounded good if I built it myself.
Basically, I just want to start building the thoughts that run through my mind all day, sell all this stuff I have laying around here right now, buy some equipment to go with what I've built, and finally stick with it and enjoy it for a while!! I'm hoping that maybe these Radian coaxials would be a good start. With having no experience in actually building anything, my reasons for eyeing this particular option is probably obvious... Mainly, they're coaxials, so no trying to match multiple drivers, etc...and Radian manufactures crossovers that can be purchased to go with them, which would obviously be a tremendous help to me.
While trying not to go any farther from the original topic than I already have thoughout this thread, I plan to power whatever speakers I end up using/buying/building with pro amplifiers for various reasons, with the intention of prossibly 'upgrading' to tubes in the far future when I'm a little older.
Just to kind of give an idea of what's going on, here's just a few of the items I have that I plan on selling: Outlaw Audio Model 990, Eminent Technology LFT-8A, Golden Theater GTX-1, Golden Theater GTX-A, Adcom GFA-555 mkII, Adcom GFA-2535, AudioControl Bijou, ButtKicker BKA1000-4, and the list goes on.
..I guess I'm just asking for any help and/or encouragement that anyone might be able to provide regarding my situation here... whether it be your thoughts on the Radian coaxes, my future subwoofer plans, opinions on the LFT-8's, the equipment I'm selling, or whatever. I'd very much like to build something, and I've wanted to for a long time. I just need some guidance! Do you think this would be a good place to start? Any opinions, suggestions, or comments would be very welcomed.
Apologies for typing so much for so long!
I'll end it here.
~ Brandin
Hey Brandin-
I have a set of Hawthorne Audio Silver Iris coaxials that I'm using for HT use.They are basicly Eminence drivers that are modified for OB use.I can tell you that the new Hawthorne Audio high end Sterling Iris's will be a hot rod Eminence coaxial with a Radian HF driver.I looked at several coax's before deciding on the SI's.I looked at the Radian drivers,but they were a little over my budget and the Qts wasn't high enough for OB use.Being a former live sound engineer,I can tell you that Radian drivers are highly regarded by pro sound people.
If you find that an OB system would work for you,I can't more highly recommend the Hawthorn Audio products!
Good luck with your system no matter which way you go,
Steve
I have a set of Hawthorne Audio Silver Iris coaxials that I'm using for HT use.They are basicly Eminence drivers that are modified for OB use.I can tell you that the new Hawthorne Audio high end Sterling Iris's will be a hot rod Eminence coaxial with a Radian HF driver.I looked at several coax's before deciding on the SI's.I looked at the Radian drivers,but they were a little over my budget and the Qts wasn't high enough for OB use.Being a former live sound engineer,I can tell you that Radian drivers are highly regarded by pro sound people.
If you find that an OB system would work for you,I can't more highly recommend the Hawthorn Audio products!
Good luck with your system no matter which way you go,
Steve
This is also highly regarded, OEM for Cantare. Does anybody recognize it? Who could be the manufacturer?
http://www.cantare-as.de/product_info.php?info=p126_Cantare-Coherence-12.html
http://www.cantare-as.de/product_info.php?info=p126_Cantare-Coherence-12.html
Historically one of the best coaxial speakers made were done by a company by the name of Tannoy up to the 1970’s. This includes the series referred to as the silver, red and the gold. They had a great package that a true audiophile could appreciate. The drivers could be purchased individually and placed in different sized cabinets with very good results. These can only be purchased today as used and their prices reflect the value collectors have placed on them. If you have the cash they will certainly appreciate in value versus a current day driver that will depreciate or go down in value.
If you look at the strengths of those drivers it can help to identify a current day similar model. I doubt you can buy a coaxial today that is better however it is still worth using a comparison.
Not in order of importance but selecting a coaxial with a factory designed crossover is an important element in the decision. You are not likely to find a reliable crossover that has been designed by someone at home and posted on the internet. I believe Radian crosses over their 12” at 950 hz and Tannoy used 1,000 hz.
A compression horn in the older Tannoy was one of the factors that I liked most. It also used an aluminum diaphragm and persons have often commented that the Radian had a similar sound quality. The newer Tannoy use a tulip tweeter which does not have the same magic.
The mid/woofer on the 12” Tannoy had a rated sensitivity of approximately 94 db with an fs of 49 hz. This is similar to the 12 “ Radian. If Galante truly used the same Radian woofer then this could be another indication of another Radian strength as well.
Ultimately the most conclusive evidence would be a personal demo of the coaxials you are interested in. I have not had the opportunity to hear any of the Radians.
Regards,
Don
If you look at the strengths of those drivers it can help to identify a current day similar model. I doubt you can buy a coaxial today that is better however it is still worth using a comparison.
Not in order of importance but selecting a coaxial with a factory designed crossover is an important element in the decision. You are not likely to find a reliable crossover that has been designed by someone at home and posted on the internet. I believe Radian crosses over their 12” at 950 hz and Tannoy used 1,000 hz.
A compression horn in the older Tannoy was one of the factors that I liked most. It also used an aluminum diaphragm and persons have often commented that the Radian had a similar sound quality. The newer Tannoy use a tulip tweeter which does not have the same magic.
The mid/woofer on the 12” Tannoy had a rated sensitivity of approximately 94 db with an fs of 49 hz. This is similar to the 12 “ Radian. If Galante truly used the same Radian woofer then this could be another indication of another Radian strength as well.
Ultimately the most conclusive evidence would be a personal demo of the coaxials you are interested in. I have not had the opportunity to hear any of the Radians.
Regards,
Don
"all the coaxials offered from Eminence, P.Audio, B&C, Beyma, etc. all have nasty response peaks and dips in the high-end"
I don't know about the rest, but the B&C 8CX21 is pretty good
http://www.bcspeakers.com/index.php?sez=1&categoria=3&id_descrizione=32&prodotto=33
B&C is also known for not fudging spec's, don't know about the rest; the Radian curves look excessively smoothes IMO.
The B&C is used in a highly regarded pro speaker, as in sounding like clean "hi-fi", though I can't divulge who it is.
Not sure if it uses the stock B&C XO.
Also, the Radian 8" has onl7 .75 mm xmax vs. 5 mm for the B&C.
I don't know about the rest, but the B&C 8CX21 is pretty good
http://www.bcspeakers.com/index.php?sez=1&categoria=3&id_descrizione=32&prodotto=33
B&C is also known for not fudging spec's, don't know about the rest; the Radian curves look excessively smoothes IMO.
The B&C is used in a highly regarded pro speaker, as in sounding like clean "hi-fi", though I can't divulge who it is.
Not sure if it uses the stock B&C XO.
Also, the Radian 8" has onl7 .75 mm xmax vs. 5 mm for the B&C.
The first Coax speaker was invented by Altec Lansing in 1941.
http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/Duplex.html
If you want some original Altec Duplex Great Plains Audio makes them under model 604-8HII.
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/604_8H_II.pdf
Bill Hanuschak worked for the Altec Lansing Corporation of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma from 1980 until Electro-Voice shut them down in 1998. During his years there, He was a loudspeaker production engineer, an acoustic design technician, and finally ended up as the only remaining in-house acoustic product engineer for the once-great professional audio company known as Altec Lansing.
So these are not clones ,they are originals.
http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/Duplex.html
If you want some original Altec Duplex Great Plains Audio makes them under model 604-8HII.
http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/604_8H_II.pdf
Bill Hanuschak worked for the Altec Lansing Corporation of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma from 1980 until Electro-Voice shut them down in 1998. During his years there, He was a loudspeaker production engineer, an acoustic design technician, and finally ended up as the only remaining in-house acoustic product engineer for the once-great professional audio company known as Altec Lansing.
So these are not clones ,they are originals.
Attachments
BHTX said:
Nothing wrong with that. I've been doing DIY audio (home and car) for over a decade and I still can't build a competent box that I'd be willing to look at. I don't get enjoyment out of woodwork. I enjoy design and the parts of the process that involve listening for flaws and attempting to correct them. There are plenty of people who do enjoy woodworking, or at least offer the service, so you can "DIY" great speakers without being able to cut a sheet of MDF in a straight line!
BHTX said:
I'm sure the Radian drivers themselves are pretty good. One of my friends is working on a 4-way system (LCY ribbon supertweet, 8" cast frame Radian coax, bespoke woofer) and he compares the Radian driver favorably to the current 8" consumer iteration of the Tannoy Dual Concentric. (He works for a Tannoy dealer.) If you plan to put the drivers in speaker cabinets they will result in very thin bass with the stock crossovers. For an in-wall or an on-wall application, the stock crossovers might get you 70-75% of the available performance from the drivers under the best of circumstances. That might still be quite good, and give you plenty of room to improve things inexpensively thereafter.
BHTX said:
Question their measurements with good reason. I know of no coax, including commercial hifi designs by KEF, Seas/Gradient, and Thiel, that do not have top-octave issues directly on axis. However, axial response graphs don't tell the whole story. Especially with this kind of driver. You'll want to be listening slightly off-axis, where the direct response is generally quite good. I don't think you'd be unhappy with any of the top coaxial drivers. The Radians are in that group, but I would give strong consideration to the B&C and BMS ones, as well. In addition, the Assistance Audio Ciare/BMS hybrid 12" coax may be of interest to you. I find BMS's compression drivers exceptional, though I've never heard their cones. The AA coax may be doubly interesting because of the high-quality passive crossover available for it.
However, one issue you should be aware of with coaxes of the Tannoy Dual Concentric type (defined broadly as "any coax that uses the cone profile as part of its horn," as opposed to Altec Duplex-type coaxes that have separate protruding tweeter horns) is that the quality of the treble will be impacted by movement of the woofer cone at higher SPL. While in my HT I do currently use 8" Dual Concentrics (Tannoys) down to 100Hz, that is not ideal and listening to a big symphony (say, Mahler 8) at concert hall SPL reveals some treble modulation. They would sound more relaxed and natural with a highpass filter at ~300Hz and a woofer underneath them. By contrast, the 12" Dual Concentrics (also Tannoys) I use in my office system do not exhibit such effects at any level I listen to them (80Hz cross to the subwoofer, a JBL W15GTi in a sealed box), though at a greater distance than ~6' away they might. My point is: either go multiway or go big.
BHTX said:
You're certainly not the first person to start off infatuated with line arrays before the problems you cite above start to really gnaw and grate. Nor, if it makes you feel better, are you the first person to jump from line arrays to coaxes!
BHTX said:
You may wish to give strong consideration to the Crown XTi line. With those amps' built-in filters and parametric EQ, you won't need to deal with passive crossovers. Just set up a decent measurement rig and adjust the crossovers with the included software (requires a late-model Mac able to run windows in Boot Camp or Parallels, or I suppose a non-Mac if one absolutely insists) and you're off. With those or any other good modern amp, tubes will not be an upgrade...
DonM said:
Historically as well as in the present day. The technology has changed (no more shared Alnico magnets, compression tweets, or pepperpot phase plugs) but to my ears their current drivers are markedly superior to the old ones, with far more palpable midbass performance, cleaner midrange response, and more extended treble. (That said, the only vintage Tannoys I'd heard had been around for a while, so some of the issues I heard could have been a result of the intrinsic unreliability of Alnico magnets over time and heat stress.)
noah katz said:
I second your opinion of the 8" B&C. (In Europe for a time it was also marketed under the brand name "Hi-Level," and that one does not seem to have been modified from the stock model. That is the guise in which I've heard it.)
Tom Danley has also praised the B&C 8" coax. I assure you not with the stock crossover, though!
My caveat would be as above, that it really does not work well when run down to a typical subwoofer crossover of ~80Hz. At least not in the hands of someone with average-to-below-average creativity in the box design department such as me. Someone with way-above-average creativity, such as Danley with his tapped horn design, may well be able to get compression and modulation free performance down to 80-100Hz out of them.
CONVERGENCE said:
Hardly. There were plenty of coaxes before the Altec Duplexes came onto the scene. One that I would very much like to hear someday is the German Eckmiller O15, which is a prewar design.
Re: Re: Radian 5215B coaxials?
As far as the future Sterling Iris, I think that's awesome, and I can't wait for it to come out! From what little I've been able to find about it on the Hawthorne forum, it sounds like just what I'm looking for in a coaxial, aside from being an OB design that I've never really heard before. I'm actually tempted to plan on waiting to do anything until these Sterling Iris OB coaxials have been out for a while. I wonder how much $ they'll be? Definitely not as much as the 15" Radians, for sure tho.
(old SNL - Dana Carvey's The Church Lady)... might just be an American thing, I dunno..
I obviously can't read anything on those pages, and the response graphs are too tiny. But from what I can make out, they still look much better than many of the other coaxials out there, and somewhat resemble the graphs in the Radian PDF's, without all the ridiculous smoothing.
After spending forever attempting to model every possible woofer I could find to augment the 8" Radian, I kinda gave up on it, for various reasons, and started thinking more about the 15" model instead.
Your comments about the 8" Radian coax pretty much reflect my predictions. I've never heard those Tannoys though...I sure wish I could, as that'd answer a ton of questions and pretty much allow me to hear what I'm thinking about doing before I attempt to do it. Regardless of what specific driver I ended up going with, it'd definitely give me an idea of the overall sound. Or, I might not like what I hear, and change my mind before I waste time and money building it...although I think that'd be unlikely.
...Yeah, I have yet to find any coax without these top-octave issues either. The Radians were the first I've ever seen with such a simple graph, which is probably a large part of the reason why I've become so curious about them.
As for the Assistance Audio coaxial, I came across that recently as well, but had almost forgotten about it. Thanks for the reminder! However, after modeling it, it doesn't appear to have much greater low-end response than the 8" Radian, so I'm not so sure. It does look interesting though, and I'll continue to try to find out more about it. It'd definitely save me some money over the Radians.
As for the possibility of distortion in dual concentrics from movement of the cone... this is something I've often wondered about, and I remember doing some research on it several months back, but can't remember what all I read. Some people said it was audible, some said it wasn't. Similar to what you've stated, I think it all just depends on the particular driver and the entire setup...basically, how much the cone ever moves. Just to be on the safe side, I've mainly always tended to focus on the larger drivers, and for other reasons/benefits as well.
Ah, well...
Cool, another recommendation for the Iris.. I'd been eyeing these things as well, and have been lurking their forum off and on since I first discovered them recently. As far as construction goes, the simplicity of an OB is obviously appealing to me.. Along with the fact that these also come with a custom crossover of decent quality, designed by someone with a mentality like those on this forum, with a product geared to this type of audience. However, I've never heard an OB like this, but I'm guessing the open diffused sound of planars would be somewhat similar?...except only from the bass to upper midrange, of course...and perhaps it wouldn't have that massive TALL sound that I'm beginning not to like so much at times. I've also never been completely clear on how OB/IB systems work exactly, especially when it comes to baffle dimensions. Basically, I wish I could some how hear the entire Iris/Auggie setup to get a good idea of how it all sounds and works, as well as see how the bass sounds in different parts of the room, etc. The only thing that really concerns me about the Silver Iris in particular are the few complaints I've come across regarding the tweeter, as well as how satisfied I'd be with the bass response, including the Augies. Aside from all that, the thought of having 3 large simple-to-build baffles behind a large custom acoustically transparent screen sounds appealing to me...although being an OB, it probably wouldn't be any different than trying to place my planars, as far as placement from the back wall goes. I've been having a lot of problems with my 67" Samsung 1080p DLP since I got it a year or more ago, and it's been in the shop for nearly a month now, and I've been going in circles with the repair place trying to find out what's going on. So, the projector/screen thing is something else I've been looking into lately.carstereogeek said:
As far as the future Sterling Iris, I think that's awesome, and I can't wait for it to come out! From what little I've been able to find about it on the Hawthorne forum, it sounds like just what I'm looking for in a coaxial, aside from being an OB design that I've never really heard before. I'm actually tempted to plan on waiting to do anything until these Sterling Iris OB coaxials have been out for a while. I wonder how much $ they'll be? Definitely not as much as the 15" Radians, for sure tho.
Hrmmmm...Could it beeee...RADIAN?!?!el`Ol said:
(old SNL - Dana Carvey's The Church Lady)... might just be an American thing, I dunno..I obviously can't read anything on those pages, and the response graphs are too tiny. But from what I can make out, they still look much better than many of the other coaxials out there, and somewhat resemble the graphs in the Radian PDF's, without all the ridiculous smoothing.
Thanks for the info, I'll keep my eye on the B&C stuff as well then.DonM [/i][/QUOTE] Yeah said:
Yeah well, that's one of several reasons why I was mainly looking at the 15" Radian 5215B.noah katz said:
After spending forever attempting to model every possible woofer I could find to augment the 8" Radian, I kinda gave up on it, for various reasons, and started thinking more about the 15" model instead...This is something I've often thought about. But how do I go about finding these people?...that's my problem.CONVERGENCE [/i][/QUOTE] Thanks for the reply. I think I'd ran across that link about the Altecs recently. Those other speakers do seem nice. As for Altec Lansing...EV did all that?? I didn't know that. That was mean of them. Perhaps I shouldn't consider EV anymore. :( [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Pallas said:
Your comments about the 8" Radian coax pretty much reflect my predictions. I've never heard those Tannoys though...I sure wish I could, as that'd answer a ton of questions and pretty much allow me to hear what I'm thinking about doing before I attempt to do it. Regardless of what specific driver I ended up going with, it'd definitely give me an idea of the overall sound. Or, I might not like what I hear, and change my mind before I waste time and money building it...although I think that'd be unlikely.
...Yeah, I have yet to find any coax without these top-octave issues either. The Radians were the first I've ever seen with such a simple graph, which is probably a large part of the reason why I've become so curious about them.
As for the Assistance Audio coaxial, I came across that recently as well, but had almost forgotten about it. Thanks for the reminder! However, after modeling it, it doesn't appear to have much greater low-end response than the 8" Radian, so I'm not so sure. It does look interesting though, and I'll continue to try to find out more about it. It'd definitely save me some money over the Radians.
As for the possibility of distortion in dual concentrics from movement of the cone... this is something I've often wondered about, and I remember doing some research on it several months back, but can't remember what all I read. Some people said it was audible, some said it wasn't. Similar to what you've stated, I think it all just depends on the particular driver and the entire setup...basically, how much the cone ever moves. Just to be on the safe side, I've mainly always tended to focus on the larger drivers, and for other reasons/benefits as well.
Originally posted by Pallis
Wrong:
Two-Way Coaxial Speaker O15 (System Eckmiller) manufactured in 1943 by Konski & Krüger, Berlin N4
Check your refences before you make satements.
Ah, well..."Aside from all that, the thought of having 3 large simple-to-build baffles behind a large custom acoustically transparent screen sounds appealing to me"
Are these for HT only?
Besides the center channel back wave hitting the back wall straigt on, the surround channels should take care of the ambience that OB's generate.
You might want to read up on waveguide systems using a pro audio woofer with a compression driver on a CD (constant directivity) waveguide.
"But how do I go about finding these people?"
Unless you're going to get fancy, a cabinet shop should do.
Are these for HT only?
Besides the center channel back wave hitting the back wall straigt on, the surround channels should take care of the ambience that OB's generate.
You might want to read up on waveguide systems using a pro audio woofer with a compression driver on a CD (constant directivity) waveguide.
"But how do I go about finding these people?"
Unless you're going to get fancy, a cabinet shop should do.
CONVERGENCE said:
And released to the public in 1942.
Here's some pin-up girls for you to drool over while thinking about the Radian.
http://www.stereosound.co.jp/spi/altec/1011.jpg
Pallas,
"(In Europe for a time it was also marketed under the brand name "Hi-Level," and that one does not seem to have been modified from the stock model. That is the guise in which I've heard it.)
Tom Danley has also praised the B&C 8" coax. I assure you not with the stock crossover, though!"
Let me be sure I understand - you heard them with the stock XO and liked them, but Tom Danley doesn't think too highly of it?
I'm thinking of using them for surrounds to go with the 18Sound 12ND710/BMS4552ND/XT1086 waveguides I'm buikding for L/C/R's.
"(In Europe for a time it was also marketed under the brand name "Hi-Level," and that one does not seem to have been modified from the stock model. That is the guise in which I've heard it.)
Tom Danley has also praised the B&C 8" coax. I assure you not with the stock crossover, though!"
Let me be sure I understand - you heard them with the stock XO and liked them, but Tom Danley doesn't think too highly of it?
I'm thinking of using them for surrounds to go with the 18Sound 12ND710/BMS4552ND/XT1086 waveguides I'm buikding for L/C/R's.
noah katz said:
I've never heard the stock design. The ones I heard used a crossover (that I modified silghtly) designed by I believe Bernd Timmermans of HobbyHiFi magazine. At any rate, it was published in HobbyHiFi and was different from the stock B&C unit. However, the enclosure was not the HobbyHiFi backhorn, but a standard vented design for use with a subwoofer.
As for TD, I think you're putting words in his mouth. I just wouldn't imagine that the SH-100 would use anyone's stock crossover.
IMO they're awfully expensive for surrounds. I didn't hear a giant difference when I bumped my surrounds in the main system up from KEF Q-Compacts (5.25" Uni-Q) to DIY 8" Tannoy dual concentrics. Honestly, I don't know if I'd be able to even pass a same/different blind listening test with matched levels. I wonder if Linkwitz doesn't have things right with surround speakers: take a decent wideband driver, and point it up.
For Sale 5208C's
I have a pair of brand new (one was used for about an hour) 5208C I'll sell for $200.00 plus shipping.
mochamike@neo.rr.com
Nice drivers! - I changed the project
I have a pair of brand new (one was used for about an hour) 5208C I'll sell for $200.00 plus shipping.
mochamike@neo.rr.com
Nice drivers! - I changed the project
Hey Pallas, just out of curiosity...
Where have you gotten your Tannoy drivers? Are they vintage, or the newer models? What's the best way to get my hands on the newer ones, if I ever wanted to? Isn't there something else besides waiting for something to pop up on eBay? There's a pair of Tannoy 3836 15's on eBay atm for $1000. I've simply modeled them in WinISD with the specs provided on the ebay listing, and I think I like what I see. I suspect they'd mate very well with a powerful subwoofer too. Main difference between these Tannoys and most of the other dual concentrics from pro audio manufacturers is, of course, a much lower FS...which certainly helps. On the other hand, WinISD suggests a 8.720 cubic foot enclosure for .71 Qtc.
..I was open to the possibility of doing something like that with subwoofers, but NOT with my mains! Nearly 9 cubic feet? That's pretty big.
Where have you gotten your Tannoy drivers? Are they vintage, or the newer models? What's the best way to get my hands on the newer ones, if I ever wanted to? Isn't there something else besides waiting for something to pop up on eBay? There's a pair of Tannoy 3836 15's on eBay atm for $1000. I've simply modeled them in WinISD with the specs provided on the ebay listing, and I think I like what I see. I suspect they'd mate very well with a powerful subwoofer too. Main difference between these Tannoys and most of the other dual concentrics from pro audio manufacturers is, of course, a much lower FS...which certainly helps. On the other hand, WinISD suggests a 8.720 cubic foot enclosure for .71 Qtc.
..I was open to the possibility of doing something like that with subwoofers, but NOT with my mains! Nearly 9 cubic feet? That's pretty big.
"I didn't hear a giant difference when I bumped my surrounds in the main system up from KEF Q-Compacts (5.25" Uni-Q) to DIY 8" Tannoy dual concentrics. "
Thanks, that saves me a lot of time and money.
I was afraid my current surround projects wouldn't be able to keep up with the LCR's, but they'll likely be just fine.
Thanks, that saves me a lot of time and money.
I was afraid my current surround projects wouldn't be able to keep up with the LCR's, but they'll likely be just fine.
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