Greetings,
I have several pairs of RS 40-1197's I would like to try the Enable
process on. Also, try Dave's phase plugs. Anyway,I need a templet because I don't really know how to go about doing this process. I have some of the Pioneer 4.5 A11EC80's I will use for
practice if I can get help.
Sincerely,
Cambe
I have several pairs of RS 40-1197's I would like to try the Enable
process on. Also, try Dave's phase plugs. Anyway,I need a templet because I don't really know how to go about doing this process. I have some of the Pioneer 4.5 A11EC80's I will use for
practice if I can get help.
Sincerely,
Cambe
I thought I's post this thing "spot dots" that is really neat for cone edge damping.
http://www.sun-good.com.tw/dot_e.html
I used 3 for 5mmD 0.7mm thick for the back side of 3" cones and it works pretty good. Very good suppliment to the EnaBL pattern.
I think I have a handle on metal cones, the JX92 is on the fifth driver list, but if things work out smoothly, I should be able to get to it in a few weeks. Actually I was a bit in shock when I thought I might have reached the limit. Then suddenly listening to one last mod and one previous mod, I was wondering whether the system went bad in one channel until I finished the other. Those whom have understood my short tip post a while back should be able to figure it out.
http://www.sun-good.com.tw/dot_e.html
I used 3 for 5mmD 0.7mm thick for the back side of 3" cones and it works pretty good. Very good suppliment to the EnaBL pattern.
I think I have a handle on metal cones, the JX92 is on the fifth driver list, but if things work out smoothly, I should be able to get to it in a few weeks. Actually I was a bit in shock when I thought I might have reached the limit. Then suddenly listening to one last mod and one previous mod, I was wondering whether the system went bad in one channel until I finished the other. Those whom have understood my short tip post a while back should be able to figure it out.
Here is s demonstration of different patterns on the same driver.
Pattern #1
0.38ms
3.75ms
Pattern #2
0.38ms
3.75ms
Which will sound better? I'll just leave this an open issue for now.
Pattern #1
0.38ms
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
3.75ms
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Pattern #2
0.38ms
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
3.75ms
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Which will sound better? I'll just leave this an open issue for now.
These two sound very different! If we reduce the high frequency hash, then the sound becomes more focused with image depth which is evident even when lstening to one channel alone. The lower frequencies will have make the music seem a bit colored, but is really more s shift in how energy redistributed. Ideally we would want to transfer the residual energy from the cone to the surround and let the surround dissipate it. It's hard to find driver companies that are willing to and have the deep pockets to invest in such studies.
The 1.1K or so ridge is always there, a part that needs to be fixed in a different way. This source of problem was found using analysis.
The 1.1K or so ridge is always there, a part that needs to be fixed in a different way. This source of problem was found using analysis.
Hi All, Hemp FR8 c
Looks like I have finished these, pretty much..... maybe...
I added a soongsc ring to the whizzer cone, to compliment the one added to the main cone. The pics have been changed to show this.
In addition I added another set of pattern rings out on the top of the mounting basket. Net effect of these is to flatten the front dispersion angle to essentially 180 degrees of included angle, for pretty much full range.
The whizzer appears to be functioning as a Walsh device and is throwing high frequencies straight out laterally. Somehow, related to the gloss coat, this blends with the whizzer front wave seamlessly.
These drivers do require gloss coating and it MUST be done in the following manner. The Gloss coat will all be a 50% water, gloss mix.
First, using a side tamped 3/8" sable, flat area brush, allowing the "semi clear white liquid" to almost disappear off of the end of the brush, during tamp, coat the main cone from voice coil join to the mid cone (soongsc) ring. Use one tamped brush load per stroke, in a radial stroke from voice coil to mid pattern ring. This stuff will sink right in, so be careful to get each stroke adjacent to the one before, without overlap. Pre mark your start point by starting opposite one of the mounting holes in the flange and marking that hole with something that wont come loose.
When complete, allow to dry overnight.
Next step is to brush a set of circumferential strokes, using the same method of tamping, from voice coil out onto the surround glue area at cones edge, but not further out onto the surround corrugations portion. This should require about three bands of paint before the mid ring and three more out to the surround glue plate. A brush load should empty in about a 1/4 arc, or from mounting hole to mounting hole, per band.
When complete, allow to dry overnight.
Next step is back to radial strokes. A brush load should be tamped on one side and each load should do a 1/8 section, from voice coil to the inner edge of the surround, not up on to the glue area this time.
Next, using a brush load tamped on both sides, with little or no liquid white showing at the end, paint the inside of the whizzer from step to edge, where the flange joins. One brush stroke per load. Do not allow the brush to slip down over the step and out onto the dome at the beginning of the strokes. Paint the ledge later.
When complete, allow to dry overnight. You can begin to listen after the drying is finished. If you listened before you began the gloss coat the difference will astound you.
Next, using a brush tamped on both sides, as above, cover a 1/8 section in a lateral scrumble, up and down and side to side, go over it a couple of times. Then, use that same brush load to cover the same 1/8 area on the outside of the whizzer, from voice coil to right up under the ledge. Be careful here, you can distort the ledge joint if you press very hard. Use a scrumble technique here too. This an almost dry brush method and you want just the lightest coating on this surface. Then, using a fine haired, small, pointed brush, bent in the middle of the ferrule to a 90 degree angle, paint the underside of the whizzer ledge and the top of the ledge, with about 1 tamped brush load per 1/8 portion.
Next, using an almost dry brush, heavily tamped, paint one coat on each 1/2 of the surround corrugations, per brush load. This is about as much as you used on the outside of the whizzer. Then . using a one side tamp, paint the soft pad over the gluse joint between surround and frame and out onto the frame also. About four brush loads should do for this.
Next take another fine pointed tip brush and coat the step from whizzer onto the center dome, allow the brush to cover the dome pattern rings. Might take two tamped brush loads to do this. Then take a third load and scrumble it about onto the dome until the coating looks even.
When complete, allow to dry overnight.
Next, apply a drop of PVA onto the center dome spot with the usual cut wooden toothpick, cut to the full barrel diameter, so about an 0.050" diameter droplet. Allow this to dry for 4 hours and then put a light coating of gloss over just the PVA
When you go to look at the pics here,
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/HempFR8
Look closely at the mid whizzer ring pattern and the clear flat pattern out on the mounting flange. The whizzer mid ring (soongsc) pattern turns this whizzer into one of the finest tweeters I have ever heard.
The outer pattern, on the frame, is put on over the gloss and not recoated. This is the last bit to do and will provide a 180 degree radiation on the front and squeeze the back wave into about a 120 degree included angle.
The only thing this driver lacks, when compared to the Lowter PM6A is an inherent musical beauty. Everything else, well, buy as many of these drivers as you can get your hands on, hang them on a wall, in open air, with no baffle......
The soongsc rings bring a lightness and tranparency I have never heard before, in any driver. Applying the patterns to the back side of the driver certainly helps with the clarity, it always does, if you can get in there, but these mid rings, with the position found after the normal rings are applied, are really effective.
I have attached the a revision of the pattern rings pdf. All of the others remain the same.
Bud
Looks like I have finished these, pretty much..... maybe...
I added a soongsc ring to the whizzer cone, to compliment the one added to the main cone. The pics have been changed to show this.
In addition I added another set of pattern rings out on the top of the mounting basket. Net effect of these is to flatten the front dispersion angle to essentially 180 degrees of included angle, for pretty much full range.
The whizzer appears to be functioning as a Walsh device and is throwing high frequencies straight out laterally. Somehow, related to the gloss coat, this blends with the whizzer front wave seamlessly.
These drivers do require gloss coating and it MUST be done in the following manner. The Gloss coat will all be a 50% water, gloss mix.
First, using a side tamped 3/8" sable, flat area brush, allowing the "semi clear white liquid" to almost disappear off of the end of the brush, during tamp, coat the main cone from voice coil join to the mid cone (soongsc) ring. Use one tamped brush load per stroke, in a radial stroke from voice coil to mid pattern ring. This stuff will sink right in, so be careful to get each stroke adjacent to the one before, without overlap. Pre mark your start point by starting opposite one of the mounting holes in the flange and marking that hole with something that wont come loose.
When complete, allow to dry overnight.
Next step is to brush a set of circumferential strokes, using the same method of tamping, from voice coil out onto the surround glue area at cones edge, but not further out onto the surround corrugations portion. This should require about three bands of paint before the mid ring and three more out to the surround glue plate. A brush load should empty in about a 1/4 arc, or from mounting hole to mounting hole, per band.
When complete, allow to dry overnight.
Next step is back to radial strokes. A brush load should be tamped on one side and each load should do a 1/8 section, from voice coil to the inner edge of the surround, not up on to the glue area this time.
Next, using a brush load tamped on both sides, with little or no liquid white showing at the end, paint the inside of the whizzer from step to edge, where the flange joins. One brush stroke per load. Do not allow the brush to slip down over the step and out onto the dome at the beginning of the strokes. Paint the ledge later.
When complete, allow to dry overnight. You can begin to listen after the drying is finished. If you listened before you began the gloss coat the difference will astound you.
Next, using a brush tamped on both sides, as above, cover a 1/8 section in a lateral scrumble, up and down and side to side, go over it a couple of times. Then, use that same brush load to cover the same 1/8 area on the outside of the whizzer, from voice coil to right up under the ledge. Be careful here, you can distort the ledge joint if you press very hard. Use a scrumble technique here too. This an almost dry brush method and you want just the lightest coating on this surface. Then, using a fine haired, small, pointed brush, bent in the middle of the ferrule to a 90 degree angle, paint the underside of the whizzer ledge and the top of the ledge, with about 1 tamped brush load per 1/8 portion.
Next, using an almost dry brush, heavily tamped, paint one coat on each 1/2 of the surround corrugations, per brush load. This is about as much as you used on the outside of the whizzer. Then . using a one side tamp, paint the soft pad over the gluse joint between surround and frame and out onto the frame also. About four brush loads should do for this.
Next take another fine pointed tip brush and coat the step from whizzer onto the center dome, allow the brush to cover the dome pattern rings. Might take two tamped brush loads to do this. Then take a third load and scrumble it about onto the dome until the coating looks even.
When complete, allow to dry overnight.
Next, apply a drop of PVA onto the center dome spot with the usual cut wooden toothpick, cut to the full barrel diameter, so about an 0.050" diameter droplet. Allow this to dry for 4 hours and then put a light coating of gloss over just the PVA
When you go to look at the pics here,
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/HempFR8
Look closely at the mid whizzer ring pattern and the clear flat pattern out on the mounting flange. The whizzer mid ring (soongsc) pattern turns this whizzer into one of the finest tweeters I have ever heard.
The outer pattern, on the frame, is put on over the gloss and not recoated. This is the last bit to do and will provide a 180 degree radiation on the front and squeeze the back wave into about a 120 degree included angle.
The only thing this driver lacks, when compared to the Lowter PM6A is an inherent musical beauty. Everything else, well, buy as many of these drivers as you can get your hands on, hang them on a wall, in open air, with no baffle......
The soongsc rings bring a lightness and tranparency I have never heard before, in any driver. Applying the patterns to the back side of the driver certainly helps with the clarity, it always does, if you can get in there, but these mid rings, with the position found after the normal rings are applied, are really effective.
I have attached the a revision of the pattern rings pdf. All of the others remain the same.
Bud
I would recommend trying the skicky dots on the back side outer edge of the whizzer to suppress bell modes as Ted Jordan had probably mentioned in his book on Loudspeakers. I wish I could find his book somewhere.
The stick dots are removeable and reusable by the way. If it's not sticky any more, just clean it with water.
The stick dots are removeable and reusable by the way. If it's not sticky any more, just clean it with water.
Well, my experience with the dot's is that if you let the dot stick together with itself, it's hard to find where to pull it apart from. If you cut it, it will stick to whatever you cut it with and things get very sticky. Additionally the stiffness is different from what is necessary for the pattern. The 5mm dots seem just right for small cone and whizzer cone, the 12mm dots might be good for larger cones and baskets.skorpion said:
JUST A MOMENT THOUGHT! LET ME GET MY DOTS AND SEE IF THEY STICK TO PAPER! I've only used them on glossy surfaces. I know they are trying to make a version with two sides that will each stick to different material, don't know how they are coming along right now.
FE206E EnABL Question for Dave
Dave,
I've been practicing my EnABL technique and I'm ready to EnABL my FE206Es this weekend. Before I start I have a couple of questions.
Do you recommend applying a coat of Puzzlecoat or micro gloss to the main 206 cone first before doing the EnABL treatment? After the dots have been applied, how many coats of micro gloss is recommended?
I'm still not clear about the whizzer cone. After applying the dots to the whizzer does the whizzer get any micro gloss?
After I EnABL your phase plugs do they get a coat of micro gloss as well?
And finally, has anyone posted an EnABL template for the 206? I searched the thread and didn't find any.
Sorry for all the questions just don't want to hose my 206s!!
Thanks -
Bruce
Dave,
I've been practicing my EnABL technique and I'm ready to EnABL my FE206Es this weekend. Before I start I have a couple of questions.
Do you recommend applying a coat of Puzzlecoat or micro gloss to the main 206 cone first before doing the EnABL treatment? After the dots have been applied, how many coats of micro gloss is recommended?
I'm still not clear about the whizzer cone. After applying the dots to the whizzer does the whizzer get any micro gloss?
After I EnABL your phase plugs do they get a coat of micro gloss as well?
And finally, has anyone posted an EnABL template for the 206? I searched the thread and didn't find any.
Sorry for all the questions just don't want to hose my 206s!!
Thanks -
Bruce
Re: FE206E EnABL Question for Dave
I have started working on the text of a Fostex EnABL webpage, here is the short form:
1/ light coat of thinned puzzlecoat (this kills some of the driver coloration and gives some error recovery -- blow a spot and with a wet q-tip (and a dry to follow) you can remove a bad spot if you act fast)
2/(specific to FE166/167) pattern. you need a pr at the surround (A4 tip), at the edge of the whizzer (A5), an extra row on the top/flat part of the whizzer, a pair on the bottom of the whizzer (#56), 1 pr under the whizzer (this is the hardest, A5, i use the outer ring pattern as a template) and then 3 pair on the phase plug plus the nose-tip treatment... 2 rows of 3 pr of dots, plus a big dot on the top.
3/ 3 coats of 50% gloss on the main cone, 1 coat on the whizzer inside and on the back of the flat bit, 1 coat on the phase plugs.
4/ a spot of puzzlecoat on the very tip of the phase plug. Let it dry upside down so that gravity pulls it into a blob.
I have a set of 206s & 207s on my bench at the add the pattern stage. This will happen today or tomorrow. I will try to get pics and figure out what patterns i'm using. (literally all you do is scale the master patterns until you have something that fits... i probably have 50 patterns in a box, when faced with a new driver i just rifle thru the box 1st to see if i have something that fits)
From Bud's research on the FR8c there could well be some benefit from a pattern ring somewhere on the middle of the cone, and some detail on the back that is beneficial. Don't know if i'm going to get that figured out for the one's i'm working on.
dave
abpea said:
I have started working on the text of a Fostex EnABL webpage, here is the short form:
1/ light coat of thinned puzzlecoat (this kills some of the driver coloration and gives some error recovery -- blow a spot and with a wet q-tip (and a dry to follow) you can remove a bad spot if you act fast)
2/(specific to FE166/167) pattern. you need a pr at the surround (A4 tip), at the edge of the whizzer (A5), an extra row on the top/flat part of the whizzer, a pair on the bottom of the whizzer (#56), 1 pr under the whizzer (this is the hardest, A5, i use the outer ring pattern as a template) and then 3 pair on the phase plug plus the nose-tip treatment... 2 rows of 3 pr of dots, plus a big dot on the top.
3/ 3 coats of 50% gloss on the main cone, 1 coat on the whizzer inside and on the back of the flat bit, 1 coat on the phase plugs.
4/ a spot of puzzlecoat on the very tip of the phase plug. Let it dry upside down so that gravity pulls it into a blob.
I have a set of 206s & 207s on my bench at the add the pattern stage. This will happen today or tomorrow. I will try to get pics and figure out what patterns i'm using. (literally all you do is scale the master patterns until you have something that fits... i probably have 50 patterns in a box, when faced with a new driver i just rifle thru the box 1st to see if i have something that fits)
From Bud's research on the FR8c there could well be some benefit from a pattern ring somewhere on the middle of the cone, and some detail on the back that is beneficial. Don't know if i'm going to get that figured out for the one's i'm working on.
dave
abpea,
You should be able to use various paper doll cutouts from the earlier treatment posts, perhaps scaled slightly, to provide adequate patterns for treating these drivers. I have attached some that I think will help you to plan.
Also wander off to the pic library and down load the matching pictures to these files for added guidance. They are high rez files so you can look pretty closely.
Just don't clench, you can get away with some fairly poor practice and still reap the benefits.
As for the soongsc pattern rings and back side rings, ignore them for now, both can be added later with some careful gloss over coating, just on the pattern blocks and spaces. A single coat of 50 % gloss/water will do for this, when you get around to it.
For now apply the patterns as shown in the pic link. Notice that the whizzer uses triple rings in place of four at both ends of the cone, and yes, those will be really tiny dots on the dome. Feel free to download the picture.
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/Fostex206ERev/photo#5138741727456026706
Bud
You should be able to use various paper doll cutouts from the earlier treatment posts, perhaps scaled slightly, to provide adequate patterns for treating these drivers. I have attached some that I think will help you to plan.
Also wander off to the pic library and down load the matching pictures to these files for added guidance. They are high rez files so you can look pretty closely.
Just don't clench, you can get away with some fairly poor practice and still reap the benefits.
As for the soongsc pattern rings and back side rings, ignore them for now, both can be added later with some careful gloss over coating, just on the pattern blocks and spaces. A single coat of 50 % gloss/water will do for this, when you get around to it.
For now apply the patterns as shown in the pic link. Notice that the whizzer uses triple rings in place of four at both ends of the cone, and yes, those will be really tiny dots on the dome. Feel free to download the picture.
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/Fostex206ERev/photo#5138741727456026706
Bud
Hi all Hemp FR8
Having had a moderately long listening experience with these full house Hemps, I want to caution you about some of the steps.
Specifically the mid main cone and mid whizzer cone rings. These do bring a startlingly clear and concise structure to music, but just like the Lowther DX4, they suck an amp dry.
These rings on this driver make Electron Pools mandatory. So, unless you want to purchase some from me, or experiment with your own brand, I think you should leave those two rings off of your FR8c drivers.
The reason for having Soongsc's suggested pattern rings is still valid, but, without a pretty specifically targeted EP you are going to have a clear, cold and extremely detailed sound.
I think I need to explore these added rings on other drivers before I can fully recommend them. Of course, the Hemps with EP's and Soongsc rings are just scary good, colorful, brashly musical and surprisingly holographic and rounded in the musical volumes they portray. But, EP's from me are a bit spendy, for something with such obviously voodoo foolishness to it. About equivalent to three list price CD's, in fact.
Just thought I should warn you, just as I did when the Lowther DX 4's were required to be fitted with EP's, to Limono's obvious delight.
Bud
Having had a moderately long listening experience with these full house Hemps, I want to caution you about some of the steps.
Specifically the mid main cone and mid whizzer cone rings. These do bring a startlingly clear and concise structure to music, but just like the Lowther DX4, they suck an amp dry.
These rings on this driver make Electron Pools mandatory. So, unless you want to purchase some from me, or experiment with your own brand, I think you should leave those two rings off of your FR8c drivers.
The reason for having Soongsc's suggested pattern rings is still valid, but, without a pretty specifically targeted EP you are going to have a clear, cold and extremely detailed sound.
I think I need to explore these added rings on other drivers before I can fully recommend them. Of course, the Hemps with EP's and Soongsc rings are just scary good, colorful, brashly musical and surprisingly holographic and rounded in the musical volumes they portray. But, EP's from me are a bit spendy, for something with such obviously voodoo foolishness to it. About equivalent to three list price CD's, in fact.
Just thought I should warn you, just as I did when the Lowther DX 4's were required to be fitted with EP's, to Limono's obvious delight.
Bud
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