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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 5th June 2012, 07:02 PM   #7671
Decker is offline Decker  United States
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How about a hint?
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Old 6th June 2012, 04:16 AM   #7672
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Nothing all that radical. 15" high efficiency bass driver in a resistive-vent cabinet with attention paid to diffraction reduction, the AH425 Azurahorn with a large-format compression driver, and a high-quality supertweeter.

Preliminary measurements are comparable to the Ariel in the time and frequency domains, with a 7~8 dB gain in efficiency and a headroom increase of 10~15 dB. Sounding good at this point, but much development remains. I hope to make the RMAF deadline, but can't say for sure at this point.

In a way, it is a modern development of the Jim Lansing Iconic that debuted in 1936. Very few music sources back then had content above 8 kHz; at high frequencies, shellac 78's were mostly noise, and the Bell Telephone intercity relays for the AM radio networks were sharp-cut at 8 kHz. A few people could pick up Major Armstrong's Yankee FM Network on the East Coast, but that was about it for wideband (and low distortion) audio. No-one outside of Germany had heard of magnetic tape, and AC biasing had not been invented yet. But the basic format of the Iconic lives on as large-format studio monitors.

Modern LP's, if played with a moving-coil cartridge, have content above 30 kHz, and high-resolution digital extends to 40 kHz and above. So the system uses a supertweeter to extend the bandwidth above the usual horn frequency range.

No, the styling does not echo the Iconic, and the drivers do not use field coils to energize the magnets.
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Last edited by Lynn Olson; 6th June 2012 at 04:38 AM.
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Old 6th June 2012, 09:49 AM   #7673
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Ah, and I thought it was going to be a little speaker called the Lynette!

I've been doing some experiments with cone breakup from the bass. You really notice it far less if it is in phase with the tweeter. In fact hardly at all. Alas there are limits to what you can do on a conventional flat baffle. But time aligned seems to allow you to do an almost perfect job. This should be good.
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Old 6th June 2012, 10:35 AM   #7674
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With the freestanding, low-diffraction Azurahorn and supertweeter, the system is easily time-aligned. The decay-to-zero for the impulse response is around 0.5~0.7 mSec, similar to the Ariel. I'll admit this is the first time I've ever seen impulse response like this for a large-format compression driver, though - the 425 Hz LeCleac'h Azurahorn is really quite remarkable in the time domain. The matching of the exit angle of the compression driver and the entrance of the horn is probably helping as well.

The high-efficiency bass driver is also well-behaved above its working range, which greatly simplifies crossover design.

Last edited by Lynn Olson; 6th June 2012 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 6th June 2012, 10:48 AM   #7675
limono is offline limono  United States
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In the meantime I took a route " back to Ariel" well not quite but close enough. Bought a used Living Voice Avatars which are to me very close in philosophy and drivers used to Ariel . Granted it's a vented design and not a transmision line but those paper vifas with scan speak tweeter in D'appolito config should sound quite similar , correct me if I'm wrong as I never heard Ariel . So how do they sound? Surprisingly open and dynamic in very , very small room and quite pleasant in a big one. What I like the most is tonal quality of the speaker . No, it's not Tannoy nor altec luscious midbass with midrange presence but those old vifas surely have some of the vintage drivers magic. Yes , the "boxines " of the sound is very present but unlike in many speakers it doesn't bother me much and they are quite universal performer in very reasonable package ( not exactly cheap ) I guess what I'm trying to convey here in my poor English is "keep your Ariels around" They might get handy in bad times or "in between" times. Rgrds, L
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Old 6th June 2012, 06:42 PM   #7676
agent.5 is offline agent.5  United States
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Lynn,

glad that you are back. Are you able to find a 15" woofer that can keep up with the GPA 288/AH-425?
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Old 6th June 2012, 06:52 PM   #7677
vgeorge is offline vgeorge  Greece
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I' m curious too, about what that 15 inch woofer might be.
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Old 7th June 2012, 12:37 AM   #7678
limono is offline limono  United States
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Unobtainum Western Electric field coil , sorry guys you won't be able to buy it ..
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Old 7th June 2012, 08:06 AM   #7679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limono View Post
In the meantime I took a route "back to Ariel" well not quite but close enough. Bought a used Living Voice Avatars which are to me very close in philosophy and drivers used to Ariel. Granted it's a vented design and not a transmision line but those paper vifas with scan speak tweeter in D'appolito config should sound quite similar, correct me if I'm wrong as I never heard Ariel. So how do they sound? Surprisingly open and dynamic in a very, very small room and quite pleasant in a big one. What I like the most is tonal quality of the speaker. No, it's not Tannoy nor Altec luscious midbass with midrange presence but those old Vifas surely have some of the vintage driver's magic. Yes, the "boxiness" of the sound is very present but unlike in many speakers it doesn't bother me much and they are quite universal performer in very reasonable package (not exactly cheap) I guess what I'm trying to convey here in my poor English is "keep your Ariels around" They might get handy in bad times or "in between" times. Rgrds, L
Don't worry, the Ariels will be kept around, doing rear-channel duty if nothing else. The Ariels don't sound boxy at all; they were originally designed to mimic the sound of stacked Quad ESL57's, and they sound very much like electrostats - quick and light on their feet, due to the time response and low diffraction signature (no sharp box edges).

The new speakers sound like really big electrostats, with more dynamic and tonally vivid bass than panel speakers. The "horn" aspect of the presentation is the spatial presentation; the solo performers are in-the-room, not behind the plane of the speakers, as they would be with most electrostats. Pianos sound like they are in the room, not somewhere else, for example. This is most likely is a function of the large radiating area of the bass and horn drivers, along with low IM distortion.

There's also a 70mm Stereophonic Sound widescreen movie aspect to the presentation - it's a big sound, not surprising considering the enormous headroom of the large-format compression driver and the 15" bass driver. Many of you never heard what widescreen movie theaters sounded like in the 1950's and 1960's - completely different than modern THX screech and boom - but the new speakers bring back memories of seeing Ben-Hur, Spartacus, West Side Story, My Fair Lady, and Lawrence of Arabia. I lived in Kobe, Japan, and later Hong Kong, and our family saw these movies in their full 70mm widescreen splendor (and six-channel all-analog mag-track sound) at the Asian premieres.

You can keep your digital-cinema and THX sound; no comparison at all to 70mm Technicolor on a curved screen with three theater speakers (powered by all-analog vacuum-tube electronics) behind the screen. Stereophonic sound was still fairly new in those days, and hearing what sounded like a full symphony orchestra right behind the screen made the audiences gasp in surprise. Nowadays, it's all about very loud SFX explosions and extended battlescenes with obvious-looking CG rendering, not the same thing.

Last edited by Lynn Olson; 7th June 2012 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 7th June 2012, 09:38 AM   #7680
DeonC is offline DeonC  South Africa
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Hi Lynn

I have read your opinion on the tonal quality of ceramic, alnico and field-coil drivers, but what do you think of neodymium magnets? Are they much the same as ceramic? Thanks.

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Deon
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