If it's as good as the essentially massless plasma tweeter it's a real bargain. My friend is developing a crystal locked plasma tweeter, I'll suggest he gives these a listen.
I now have a challenge to keep myself busy: Find a mid driver to match in the same price bracket to design a system around.
Sadly I can't audition anything that isn't base level comsumer rubbish where I live. Every purchase is a risk. The thoughts you have shared have been most helpful.
I now have a challenge to keep myself busy: Find a mid driver to match in the same price bracket to design a system around.
Sadly I can't audition anything that isn't base level comsumer rubbish where I live. Every purchase is a risk. The thoughts you have shared have been most helpful.
Lynn,
re: ceramic vs. neodymium, I suppose you are aware of John Wilkinson's Putting the science back into loudspeakers
where he states:
re: ceramic vs. neodymium, I suppose you are aware of John Wilkinson's Putting the science back into loudspeakers
where he states:
I hate to toot my own horn
at Lynn's party, but I'm trying to organize a group buy for the RAAL 140-15D (the big one), and have had a very inactive thread in the group buy section.
I have finally had some action in the last week but will go ahead and post the details here.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108035
I am interested in buying a pair of these tweeters. The retail is a little hard to swallow, but the price drops to $169 EURO each if you buy 10 or more...this means if five people want two tweeters we would have a group buy. There are further price breaks at 20 and 50, but they are not as significant.
I am putting the feelers out to see what kind of interest there is.
Thanks,
C
at Lynn's party, but I'm trying to organize a group buy for the RAAL 140-15D (the big one), and have had a very inactive thread in the group buy section.
I have finally had some action in the last week but will go ahead and post the details here.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108035
I am interested in buying a pair of these tweeters. The retail is a little hard to swallow, but the price drops to $169 EURO each if you buy 10 or more...this means if five people want two tweeters we would have a group buy. There are further price breaks at 20 and 50, but they are not as significant.
I am putting the feelers out to see what kind of interest there is.
Thanks,
C
Attachments
I have heard this argument before.... but to what extent does this lack of dynamic range get mitigated through motor design? And how much content are we ACTUALLY losing? Most loudspeakers are not capable of the level of dynamic range on a CD for a variety of reasons.
This has been previously discussed, to little resolution. A higher percentage of neodymium magneted drivers has been 'good' in my experience, but how much of this truly is the magnetic material is likewise debatable ad nauseum.
Going off topic, but that seems to be as much a theme of this thread as the direct developement of Lynn's speaker.
This has been previously discussed, to little resolution. A higher percentage of neodymium magneted drivers has been 'good' in my experience, but how much of this truly is the magnetic material is likewise debatable ad nauseum.
Going off topic, but that seems to be as much a theme of this thread as the direct developement of Lynn's speaker.
It's not about the dynamic range, it is about the bit resolution. Whether it is significant "enough" is debatable, but Wilkinson appears to have experimental and theoretical data that it is.
Above, Lynn repeatedly posted how he feels ceramic magnet drivers sound "coarse" to him w.r.t. Alnico and possibly Neodymium. Those statements reminded me of this paper, because this paper would exactly predict such an impression. That's all.
Above, Lynn repeatedly posted how he feels ceramic magnet drivers sound "coarse" to him w.r.t. Alnico and possibly Neodymium. Those statements reminded me of this paper, because this paper would exactly predict such an impression. That's all.
While I strongly suspect that magnet type does affect a transducer's performance (though AFAIK an authoritative study has yet to be conducted), I also suspect that the nonlinear properties of steel in the motor structure--especially the BH curve--leave a stronger imprint. (Think saturating OPT.)
Shorting rings--especially those that encase the full length of the pole, including the gap--would place a heavy damping load on any magnetic domain cascade noise. As frequency rises, they also progressively limit the penetration of the VC field into motor parts, thus reducing the issues related to nonlinear BH curve. So if you must have a motor with steel in it, shorting rings are a must IMO.
It's actually kind of funny when you think about it: While many audiophiles would take up arms before using steel-core inductors anywhere in the signal path, they forget that they are listening to at least two big steel-core chokes in the form of the dynamic drivers themselves. And these inductors often feature more and worse nonlinearities than even the cheapest I-core inductor.
In my mind, the dynamic driver holy grail is a motor structure that does away with steel altogether.
Bill
Shorting rings--especially those that encase the full length of the pole, including the gap--would place a heavy damping load on any magnetic domain cascade noise. As frequency rises, they also progressively limit the penetration of the VC field into motor parts, thus reducing the issues related to nonlinear BH curve. So if you must have a motor with steel in it, shorting rings are a must IMO.
It's actually kind of funny when you think about it: While many audiophiles would take up arms before using steel-core inductors anywhere in the signal path, they forget that they are listening to at least two big steel-core chokes in the form of the dynamic drivers themselves. And these inductors often feature more and worse nonlinearities than even the cheapest I-core inductor.
In my mind, the dynamic driver holy grail is a motor structure that does away with steel altogether.
Bill
Neodymium magnets tend to be much smaller than the alternatives of comparable magneto-motive force, so structure is more open, reducing back-wave reflections and the like.
They are also much lighter, so structural resonances involving the basket stiffness and magnet mass are at higher frequencies, where they are better damped.
I wonder if these factors also contribute to the favorable reaction to neo drivers?
They are also much lighter, so structural resonances involving the basket stiffness and magnet mass are at higher frequencies, where they are better damped.
I wonder if these factors also contribute to the favorable reaction to neo drivers?
Lynn Olson said:
Yeah, that's my memory too. For the demo it was treated - then untreated. I had a close look at the second set, I saw no EnABL. But I will continue this over on the EnABL thread.
As for Triangle, I used their 1st driver, a 6.5" FR, in my 1st DIY project over 20 years ago. A lovely driver. Lynn has said he doesn't care much for the present Triangle line. I have not heard them.
BTW, maybe the best system I heard was a surprise.
http://www.lyngdorf.com/ Room 1002, IIRC.
The DP-1 system.
Being a fan of big drivers and big horns, I would never have thought these small guys could do what they did.
The system had an active room correction processor - again, not my cup of tea - but it worked. Without the room correction the system was excellent. With correction - World Class.
The correction could be switched on and off via a remote control. The difference was subtle, but real. Without correction the system was smooth, high resolution, balanced and had the true delicacy of live music (very rare).
With correction all that was still there, but some "woolly warmth" gone from the lower mids. But - the big surprise was the increase in resolution. Suddenly the acoustics of the recording venue became obvious. Hall, club, recording studio, whatever the space. A real treat.
The Doors Riders on the Storm was a true pleasure. What a great recording! Complex, delicate, beautiful and powerful.
The ONLY other systems I've heard to do this where the big horn systems in excellent treated rooms - back in Paris.
I know this is not the sort of system that is being discussed here - but damn - it worked!
http://www.lyngdorf.com/ Room 1002, IIRC.
The DP-1 system.
Being a fan of big drivers and big horns, I would never have thought these small guys could do what they did.
The system had an active room correction processor - again, not my cup of tea - but it worked. Without the room correction the system was excellent. With correction - World Class.
The correction could be switched on and off via a remote control. The difference was subtle, but real. Without correction the system was smooth, high resolution, balanced and had the true delicacy of live music (very rare).
With correction all that was still there, but some "woolly warmth" gone from the lower mids. But - the big surprise was the increase in resolution. Suddenly the acoustics of the recording venue became obvious. Hall, club, recording studio, whatever the space. A real treat.
The Doors Riders on the Storm was a true pleasure. What a great recording! Complex, delicate, beautiful and powerful.
The ONLY other systems I've heard to do this where the big horn systems in excellent treated rooms - back in Paris.
I know this is not the sort of system that is being discussed here - but damn - it worked!
EnABL demonstration
I wanted to keep the demonstration a blind test, but Lynn walked in as drivers were being changed and so he knew what we were listening to. Post demonstration discussions led to the belief that Lynn explained this, but obviously this belief was incorrect.
So non-EnABL during the show, EnABL during the 1st part of the demo, non-EnABL in the 2nd part of the demo.
Hope that clears it up.
I wanted to keep the demonstration a blind test, but Lynn walked in as drivers were being changed and so he knew what we were listening to. Post demonstration discussions led to the belief that Lynn explained this, but obviously this belief was incorrect.
So non-EnABL during the show, EnABL during the 1st part of the demo, non-EnABL in the 2nd part of the demo.
Hope that clears it up.
Re: Lyngdorf
Just for fun, I modeled the Dayton Reference 8" in a OB that's identical to what they are using. I found the dimensions on their website.
It looks like the Lyngdorf folks know what they are doing. Using a baffle half as large, their design is only 3db down at the 300hz crossover frequency. The ripple in my modeled response would be evened out a bit by their curved and tapered baffle (which can't be modeled easily.)
If anyone here is interested in an open baffle speaker with waveguides, take a look at the one I am working on.
chrismercurio said:
Just for fun, I modeled the Dayton Reference 8" in a OB that's identical to what they are using. I found the dimensions on their website.
It looks like the Lyngdorf folks know what they are doing. Using a baffle half as large, their design is only 3db down at the 300hz crossover frequency. The ripple in my modeled response would be evened out a bit by their curved and tapered baffle (which can't be modeled easily.)
If anyone here is interested in an open baffle speaker with waveguides, take a look at the one I am working on.
Re: I hate to toot my own horn
Paging Lynn:
Have you purchased your set of RAAL tweeters? Can I assume that the RAAL is >80% certain to be used in your speakers? Are you still planning on using back tweeters and should we add the RAAL mini to this group buy?
The reason that I ask is that USD is weak and is getting weaker; so I like to pay for European goods (payable in Euros) sooner rather than later.
Paging Lynn:
Have you purchased your set of RAAL tweeters? Can I assume that the RAAL is >80% certain to be used in your speakers? Are you still planning on using back tweeters and should we add the RAAL mini to this group buy?
The reason that I ask is that USD is weak and is getting weaker; so I like to pay for European goods (payable in Euros) sooner rather than later.