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Old 9th February 2012, 08:48 AM   #2101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperTop View Post
Thinking about this, I might go so far as to make the following generalisation:

A person creating an electronic simulation program would not have to know anything about electronics, but have a reasonable amout of maths. Conversely, an engineer practising electronics, with access to the simulator, would not have to know any maths at all...
Don't agree. You can't design a simulator if you dont know Thevenin or Norton, just to mention a few. Also, for convergence, you better know about parasitic resistance in capacitors.
And who will build your models? An area where electronics and device knowledge is required at the deepest level.

And an engineer with a sim but no math gets nowhere. How do you size R and C for a roll off to make an amp stable without math?? Trial and error? That doesn't seem too intelligent.

jan
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Old 9th February 2012, 08:56 AM   #2102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janneman View Post
You can't design a simulator if you dont know Thevenin or Norton, just to mention a few.
A simulator is just solving a set of simultaneous differential equations surely? Its generic - it could be solving some equations from a completely different domain, other than electronics. Where does Thevenin or Norton fit in?

Quote:
And who will build your models? An area where electronics and device knowledge is required at the deepest level.
I agree modelling is where electronics knowledge is necessary, but models are not part of the simulator per se. Of course they're provided in software packages to make them useful to engineers.

Quote:
And an engineer with a sim but no math gets nowhere. How do you size R and C for a roll off to make an amp stable without math?? Trial and error? That doesn't seem too intelligent.
Genetic algorithms?
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Old 9th February 2012, 09:21 AM   #2103
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperTop View Post
Thinking about this, I might go so far as to make the following generalisation:
ALL Generalisations are WRONG, including this one...

Ciao T
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Old 9th February 2012, 09:28 AM   #2104
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Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
Hi,

ALL Generalisations are WRONG, including this one...

Ciao T
As much as I hate to admit it I must agree with you here...

jan
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Old 9th February 2012, 09:32 AM   #2105
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Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
A simulator is just solving a set of simultaneous differential equations surely? Its generic - it could be solving some equations from a completely different domain, other than electronics. Where does Thevenin or Norton fit in?[snip]
Surely you need to write the equations before you can solve them?
I have been in many software projects where the programmer was given a 'neutral' set of specs without training him on the underlying reality that he should code for.
These projects fail.

jan
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Old 9th February 2012, 09:33 AM   #2106
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"Johnson noise is the noise one would theoretically get from a "perfect" resistor, and depends only on resistance and temperature. Real resistors have excess noise as well which depends on material, applied voltage etc. A good resistor will have noise only slightly higher than the Johnson noise, whereas a lousy resistor will have much worse noise."

That is an explanation that makes sense.

Without understanding the impedance of the CM, how on earth could one estimate the gain of the diff pair? The books say adding degeneration improves their action but lowers stage gain. They stop at that which does not help. I will go looking for better textbooks. There are a lot online, it is just finding it. MIT has everything, buy if you don't know what you are looking for, it is hard to find.
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Old 9th February 2012, 09:36 AM   #2107
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
Yep, no disagreement. As Morpheus says 'they are the gatekeepers, they are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys'.
Beautiful, the Matrix, innit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
A real realist would not even have preferences ('like this, don't like that'), just get on with the task of creating reality in his/her image.
I would call that a pure realist.

All animals are pure realists.

That which defines Men as being on a different level than an animal is the fact the Men can transcend reality and both conceive a different reality and take actions to substitute this more desirable reality for that which is (e.g. light a fire to get warm, rather than continuing to freeze).

A pure realist considers not what things should, could or may be like but gets on with one specific job he is focused upon. Such approaches gave us poison gas, atomic bombs, Chernobyl and Fukushima and about any other undesirable aspect in human life and society.

Such realists in Trinity where having bets if setting off the first nuke would trigger a kind of chain reaction in the whole earth atmosphere or if it would be limited to a state or a smaller area (thankfully they where all wrong) but pressed the button anyway.

I think a true realist sees both that which could or should be and that which is and adjusts his or her actions accordingly for the best outcome.

Ciao T
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Old 9th February 2012, 09:51 AM   #2108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
Beautiful, the Matrix, innit?
Sublime, yep.

Quote:
All animals are pure realists.
Oh look, one of those generalizations. All animals would include humans would it not?

Quote:
That which defines Men as being on a different level than an animal is the fact the Men can transcend reality and both conceive a different reality and take actions to substitute this more desirable reality for that which is (e.g. light a fire to get warm, rather than continuing to freeze).
How would it be possible to know that animals (other than homo sapiens) do not conceive of different realities?

Quote:
A pure realist considers not what things should, could or may be like but gets on with one specific job he is focused upon. Such approaches gave us poison gas, atomic bombs, Chernobyl and Fukushima and about any other undesirable aspect in human life and society.
Guilt by association? In my earlier remark I was hinting that a 'real (or pure, no matter) realist' would not bother (i.e. waste time) announcing the fact. How would he/she know that s/he was a 'pure realist' anyway? S/he'd be keenly aware that everyone has their own meaning of what 'real' and 'pure' is. If you'd like a reference from the Bible, I'm fairly sure I could find one to back this up

Quote:
I think a true realist sees both that which could or should be and that which is and adjusts his or her actions accordingly for the best outcome.
With an idiosyncratic meaning of 'best' perhaps?
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Old 9th February 2012, 09:56 AM   #2109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janneman View Post
Surely you need to write the equations before you can solve them?
I'm quite unclear what you're referring to here. The equations that run in the sim are customer supplied.

Quote:
I have been in many software projects where the programmer was given a 'neutral' set of specs without training him on the underlying reality that he should code for.
These projects fail.
Well coding to specs, rather than for customers, does tend to have this result yep. The underlying reality is the customer not the spec.
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Old 9th February 2012, 10:32 AM   #2110
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
Oh look, one of those generalizations. All animals would include humans would it not?
Some humans perhaps. I guess it depends on the definition of human.

One definition can emphasise that Humans are just animals with an extra trick, where in turn one may note that animals are just plants with extra tricks and even that plants are really only minerals rearranged, at which point we have de-constructed all division and arrive at the point that all is matter, maya and divisions are artificial.

If we accept the artificial divisions, then one can say that animals include the nature of the plant, but add new qualities, that make them "not plants". In the same way Humans add a new quality which makes humans (most of them anyway anyway) "not animal".

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
How would it be possible to know that animals (other than homo sapiens) do not conceive of different realities?
Human is one kind of "not animal", there are others that seem to have a high indication of possessing this new quality, however they are inaccurately still listed as animals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
With an idiosyncratic meaning of 'best' perhaps?
Egoistical Men will define best purely by reference to oneself, Altruistic Men will define best purely by reference to others. Either are abstract idealisations, as it stands Men is somewhat Egoistical and somewhat Altruistic, the mix varies...

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