How low are we talking about in source impedance before we lose that benefit? There is one 0.4Ohm MC on the market, but at $8000 out of most of our budgets
The Kubotek Haniwa HCTR01 MkII-6T Green Marker Phono Cartridge | Analog Planet
Of course as usual Fremer claims lower moving mass for an MC.
The Kubotek Haniwa HCTR01 MkII-6T Green Marker Phono Cartridge | Analog Planet
Of course as usual Fremer claims lower moving mass for an MC.
Yes Karl, please do.
Scott, a lot of questions and a dedicated tread seems in order. The subject is kind of antagonistic to a hardware RIAA pre, isn’t it?
Three quotes that I particularly liked in that review
"The advantage of ultra-low inductance is less phase shift, the reason for which isn’t necessary to discuss here. Less phase shift improved transient response."
"The B.M.C. uses the current to produce an amplified output voltage that is far closer to the original signal than that of a voltage amplifier for reasons again, not worth going into here."
"The Haniwa does all of the things an expensive cartridge should do."
Post#89540
George
Entirely off the normal topics.
http://www.psemi.com/pdf/datasheets/pe44820ds.pdf
This is a new product announcement that I found interesting. I wasn't aware this technology had become so commercial. The cost is $8.13 in onesies! Although intended for directional antennas, I suspect it will find application in test equipment. (and maybe even in high speed high accuracy A/Ds.)
http://www.psemi.com/pdf/datasheets/pe44820ds.pdf
This is a new product announcement that I found interesting. I wasn't aware this technology had become so commercial. The cost is $8.13 in onesies! Although intended for directional antennas, I suspect it will find application in test equipment. (and maybe even in high speed high accuracy A/Ds.)
Yes Karl, please do.
Well......
I felt at first that #1 (RIIA preamp) was the most pleasing, however on repeated listening I began to like #3 (IIR minimum phase) because it seemed that the music seemed to rise up more as crescendos progressed. As a possible downside I also felt crescendos perhaps (but not definitely sure) seemed to harden up a little compared to #1
For no obvious reasons, I couldn't slot the other track into a pigeon hole, just simply 'not liking' it as much as the others.
All three have a curious intermittently audible tone in the left channel, I first noticed this at around 45 seconds in and although faint is like someone tapping Morse code out. No idea what that is and where in the chain it occurs.
Thanks a lot Karl for the report.
I downloaded again the files and listened to them. I can’t hear this tone in the left channel you describe
George
I had hoped I linked enough references to cover all angles. The linear vs minimum phase issue seems like a no-brainer to me, it's trivial to get an exact inverse fit to the pre-emphasis so why not?
I've taken a 9 second excerpt from the introduction that appears to have the tone and mixed it down to a mono track.
The filtered version was an attempt to make it more prominent... not sure if that was successful or not. These are the two wav files.
Karl thank you for doing all this (*).
What I understand is that you are annoyed by the environmental noise of the recording. Searching a bit, LSO was recording at the time (1970) either at Kingsway Hall (bad) or Walthamstow Town Hall (worse). Consider the size of the orchestra and the massive choir and you get the picture with the far miking.
But it is a capture of a historical event. It is either the first or the second recording of the DkL and the first of Pierre Boulez on it (he did it 30-40 years later for DG)
Here is a recent performance for DkL in the same two-part version of 1898. Pierre Boulez is conducting again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFIJhZTOn2k
It is an achievement for the tip of the cartridge to track so many details in such a complex music.
If you want to compare the three files for any harshness, try the soprano voice (if more interested, zoom-in at the part 15min +/- 5s)
George
PS At the last 30 s of your slice, you can hear the capture of a far faint sound from either someone couching or something dropping on the floor (you sense the size of the venue ).
(*) Your slice is from the analog RIAA, starting at 38s exact and ending at 47s. You’ve introduced a generous fade-in. What filter did you use for the filtered version? FFT shows something like a 36dB/oct BP at 700 @5k)
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Hi George.
Thanks, I'll give your suggested listening point a go and see if I detect any change in harshness.
I'm going to try and pin this down a little more if I can. Its definitely not ambient/venue noise. Its present on all three versions and sounds a little like a digital watch alarm but with unequal and varying 'beeps'. Very odd ! I listened firstly via my main amp and speakers at a very modest level and that's where I picked it up. File was on flash drive plugged into my Marantz SA-CD player. I can hear the same thing listening with headphones on the PC.
Thanks, I'll give your suggested listening point a go and see if I detect any change in harshness.
I'm going to try and pin this down a little more if I can. Its definitely not ambient/venue noise. Its present on all three versions and sounds a little like a digital watch alarm but with unequal and varying 'beeps'. Very odd ! I listened firstly via my main amp and speakers at a very modest level and that's where I picked it up. File was on flash drive plugged into my Marantz SA-CD player. I can hear the same thing listening with headphones on the PC.
This is from around 8' 50" in. High bitrate MP3 file this time but the beep is very audible.
About halfway through this sample there is a faint percussive sound in the right channel. The beeping is as prominent as that.
This time I used the IIR minimum phase as the sample material.
Edit
I used the high and low pass filters in Audacity but didn't make a note of the settings. Just playing about really.
About halfway through this sample there is a faint percussive sound in the right channel. The beeping is as prominent as that.
This time I used the IIR minimum phase as the sample material.
Edit
I used the high and low pass filters in Audacity but didn't make a note of the settings. Just playing about really.
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I am listening to the 3 files now, thanks for picking something nice to listen to.
To me, they are more alike then they are different. But the analog RIAA sounds the least defined to me - a little mushy. The digital versions have more pronounced noise, low and high, but it's not as pushed into the mix as the analog, the noise separates more. I also find the digital filters to offer a more open, cleaner sound than the analog. Not that the analog is awful or anything, just that the digital sound more open, more pleasant. I prefer it. Might not even be the difference in the filtering, just maybe in the front end amp?
As for the difference between IIR and FIR - hard to say. The FIR seems to be a bit cleaner and better defined, both on noise and on music, but I would not put money on a bet to tell them apart. It might take living with one for a few weeks then switching to the other to tell. Kind of like getting used to the unique noises of your own car, and hearing things other people don't notice.
To me, they are more alike then they are different. But the analog RIAA sounds the least defined to me - a little mushy. The digital versions have more pronounced noise, low and high, but it's not as pushed into the mix as the analog, the noise separates more. I also find the digital filters to offer a more open, cleaner sound than the analog. Not that the analog is awful or anything, just that the digital sound more open, more pleasant. I prefer it. Might not even be the difference in the filtering, just maybe in the front end amp?
As for the difference between IIR and FIR - hard to say. The FIR seems to be a bit cleaner and better defined, both on noise and on music, but I would not put money on a bet to tell them apart. It might take living with one for a few weeks then switching to the other to tell. Kind of like getting used to the unique noises of your own car, and hearing things other people don't notice.
Karl
I don’t know if such an acute hearing discrimination ability you possess is a blessing or a curse.
What I know is that with only a lot of attention I managed to isolate with FFT what you claim that bothers you.
Man, it’s at –90db!
It’s 10dB above the local noise floor, while the max in this recording is at –14dB (and the average at –27).
Needless to say, I can’t hear it. That’s for sure. I tried for two hours. My tinnitus whistling must be some 40dB above it.
Bill, that ‘Kingsway rumble’ must be that 40-50Hz bump present in the FFTs (the 50Hz spike in my set-up is 15-20dB below that bump and it is centered at 50Hz).
I’ll see if I have another LSO recording of the time to cross check.
And thank you for the feedback on the recordings a few posts earlier!
Scott, I will open the thread. Let me do some preliminary work first (if Mooly doesn’t draw another rabbit from his hat)
Maybe that’s true but I am dumb and slow
George
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I'm not sure what to say tbh
My listening room is pretty quiet, an SPL meter (C weighted) is currently hovering between 21 and 25dbc. Listening levels are peaking at around 70 dbc just now (opening of Chopin scherzo No 1 in B minor as I listen for Bills rumble as Ashkenazy tinkles the ivories).I don't know what to say regarding the beeping tone, although its not loud in absolute terms it is very noticeable at these kind of very modest volume settings.
Haven't had chance to try the 'harshness test' you mentioned but hopefully tomorrow will see me give that another listen.
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