I'm pretty into the guitar thing. I play in two bands intermittently. I have more guitars and amps than I should, a fact that my wife reminds me of frequently. I hang at a couple of music forums, most frequently at www.thegearpage.net - I'm "doc" over there.
Found a home ???
Goodness -- I have been a DIYAUDIO member a while now - but I just found this nook. To quote Randy Neuman "Feels like home to me ..."
Well .. I am a thirty five year wanna be guitarist. FWIIW I think that if it is really in you, you won't be able to stop ... make it one less thing to worry about.
I have waxed and waned - right before my first child was born - I was a good player (probably the best I have ever been in terms of raw chops and speed) then got busy again. I have since gone through several "exacerbations" of guitar fever <grin>.
I remember during a fever I got in the mid 90's I took a songwriting class from a very cool dude I ended up performing a bit with. He sold used amps on the side. I would go to his house to practice and play whatever he had "in stock" at any particular time -- mostly garage sale "off brands" Valcos and Ampegs. I bought this Traynor amp from him - had never had a tube amp before. I loved that thing -- but the avarice Gods made me sell it for this super cool Gibson acoustic my friend also had (still have the guitar). Been trying to build that Traynor amp ever since I guess.
After all this time --- I think the main thing is to love music - and to focus on that. Find the music that you LOVE and make it part of your soul. I don't mean just play it loud and all (thats certainly one way to love it) - but get to the point where you can "play it in your head" with great precision. Sing/hum the passages that stir you in the shower or waiting in line at the grocery store. Once those phrases are totally in your psyche then push them down to your fingers - slowly at first, quietly, lovingly. Then and only then augment this raw love with technique and study - scales (learn the CAGED system) and so forth. IMHO (from a terminal wanna be) this is the best way to play with feeling rather than technique. Play music not because you want to or even because you *can* ... but because you HAVE to!!
Goodness -- I have been a DIYAUDIO member a while now - but I just found this nook. To quote Randy Neuman "Feels like home to me ..."
Well .. I am a thirty five year wanna be guitarist. FWIIW I think that if it is really in you, you won't be able to stop ... make it one less thing to worry about.
I have waxed and waned - right before my first child was born - I was a good player (probably the best I have ever been in terms of raw chops and speed) then got busy again. I have since gone through several "exacerbations" of guitar fever <grin>.
I remember during a fever I got in the mid 90's I took a songwriting class from a very cool dude I ended up performing a bit with. He sold used amps on the side. I would go to his house to practice and play whatever he had "in stock" at any particular time -- mostly garage sale "off brands" Valcos and Ampegs. I bought this Traynor amp from him - had never had a tube amp before. I loved that thing -- but the avarice Gods made me sell it for this super cool Gibson acoustic my friend also had (still have the guitar). Been trying to build that Traynor amp ever since I guess.
After all this time --- I think the main thing is to love music - and to focus on that. Find the music that you LOVE and make it part of your soul. I don't mean just play it loud and all (thats certainly one way to love it) - but get to the point where you can "play it in your head" with great precision. Sing/hum the passages that stir you in the shower or waiting in line at the grocery store. Once those phrases are totally in your psyche then push them down to your fingers - slowly at first, quietly, lovingly. Then and only then augment this raw love with technique and study - scales (learn the CAGED system) and so forth. IMHO (from a terminal wanna be) this is the best way to play with feeling rather than technique. Play music not because you want to or even because you *can* ... but because you HAVE to!!
Hey!
I've been playing the guitar for about 10 years or so maybe a bit less and the drums for even longer.
I only took up electronics a few months ago but I really like it a lot. I've learned a lot really fast but there's just so much to wrap your head around. I love tubes and most of the stuff that's talked about in the tube/valve board just goes over my head.
All my favorite guitar players used tube amps and I just bought one myself. Got a great deal on kijiji for a peavey 5150 4x12 and on Musician's Friend I got a used Peavey Windsor 100w head. The head didn't work at first but eventually my uncle helped me trace it down to a broken solder joint. Now it works!
I'm very particular about tone but also cheap and I went to great lengths to get a tubey sound from the solid state bass head I was using. I managed to coax some nice sounds out of that thing too. The key for me was overdrive. SS distortion sounds harsh but SS overdrive sounds much smoother. They sound kind of the same in a way but in a different way it's a very different effect. I bought a behringer Tube Overdrive pedal for $30 new and it's great. I still use it to drive my tube head since turning it up enough for the amp to do it will probably blow my house apart.
It's a great amp but it has a faint buzziness that drives me nuts (my SS overdrive pedal has no such problem other than maybe mains hum which is a problem that I've been meaning to fix too). I like a really smooth kind of distortion. The stuff on the radio today sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me! Could it just be I have to break the tubes in to get that sound or would that be a problem with the amp. I don't feel confident playing with the bias trimmer so I don't know if that's it. It's just 3 12AX7s and 4 EL84s.
My first project which I'm currently working on is to take my little POS Marshall practice cube, rip out everything and replace it with a tube circuit which I'm designing.
I've been playing the guitar for about 10 years or so maybe a bit less and the drums for even longer.
I only took up electronics a few months ago but I really like it a lot. I've learned a lot really fast but there's just so much to wrap your head around. I love tubes and most of the stuff that's talked about in the tube/valve board just goes over my head.
All my favorite guitar players used tube amps and I just bought one myself. Got a great deal on kijiji for a peavey 5150 4x12 and on Musician's Friend I got a used Peavey Windsor 100w head. The head didn't work at first but eventually my uncle helped me trace it down to a broken solder joint. Now it works!
I'm very particular about tone but also cheap and I went to great lengths to get a tubey sound from the solid state bass head I was using. I managed to coax some nice sounds out of that thing too. The key for me was overdrive. SS distortion sounds harsh but SS overdrive sounds much smoother. They sound kind of the same in a way but in a different way it's a very different effect. I bought a behringer Tube Overdrive pedal for $30 new and it's great. I still use it to drive my tube head since turning it up enough for the amp to do it will probably blow my house apart.
It's a great amp but it has a faint buzziness that drives me nuts (my SS overdrive pedal has no such problem other than maybe mains hum which is a problem that I've been meaning to fix too). I like a really smooth kind of distortion. The stuff on the radio today sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me! Could it just be I have to break the tubes in to get that sound or would that be a problem with the amp. I don't feel confident playing with the bias trimmer so I don't know if that's it. It's just 3 12AX7s and 4 EL84s.
My first project which I'm currently working on is to take my little POS Marshall practice cube, rip out everything and replace it with a tube circuit which I'm designing.
Heh too late. It's already been ripped apart and most of the components salvaged. I already have the tubes, sockets and most everything I'll be needing. Don't let the Marshall name fool you - this is not a quality amp. It had a constant buzz and horrid tone anyways. It'll be no big loss if I ended up junking it but I'm hoping I can get it working.
Even if I could get a the tubey sound out of it I would still do it because I can. I'm enjoying it but so far I've been doing far more reading than soldering.
I HAVE heard though that using an output transformer gives you a warmer sound and I wonder if the classic "tube tone" is due to the OPT more than the tubes themselves?
my hands are numb, had one guitar lesson decades ago, never practiced much (nor learned) YouTube - Devil Mask Boogie (out of time and out of tune)
Arthritus is making it more and more painful to play a full set list with my Bass.
Its my left hand getting it worst, from clamping force to prevent fret buzzes
with the big strings. I've played, but don't own any fretless yet.
Meanwhile, I've switched to guitar with the 6 lowest strings of a 7 string set
(good thing Floyd Rose intonations are individually adjustible) which helps my
left hand a lot. But still seeking an optimum effect to lower this convincingly
into the Bass guitar range.
I've also got my lowest string dropped an extra two frets. Which allows for
"Ze Iron Craw..." Which is like my two finger salute chord... Holdin down big
three strings with the index finger, and the small three with with the ringer.
I know, its a cheat.
I can also reach over the top and grab the big three with my thumb, or flip
the whole guitar over and play with the alternate hand to give my soreness
a break. But any "inverted" chords excepting ze' Craw, are tough to finger.
there's probably some abbynormal chords to play like this, I just havn't yet
discovered...
Strung this way, I'm also missing the high string of a normal guitar set. But
I've always hated that string. Good riddance! Surely it was only mocking me...
Its my left hand getting it worst, from clamping force to prevent fret buzzes
with the big strings. I've played, but don't own any fretless yet.
Meanwhile, I've switched to guitar with the 6 lowest strings of a 7 string set
(good thing Floyd Rose intonations are individually adjustible) which helps my
left hand a lot. But still seeking an optimum effect to lower this convincingly
into the Bass guitar range.
I've also got my lowest string dropped an extra two frets. Which allows for
"Ze Iron Craw..." Which is like my two finger salute chord... Holdin down big
three strings with the index finger, and the small three with with the ringer.
I know, its a cheat.
I can also reach over the top and grab the big three with my thumb, or flip
the whole guitar over and play with the alternate hand to give my soreness
a break. But any "inverted" chords excepting ze' Craw, are tough to finger.
there's probably some abbynormal chords to play like this, I just havn't yet
discovered...
Strung this way, I'm also missing the high string of a normal guitar set. But
I've always hated that string. Good riddance! Surely it was only mocking me...
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I set up a thread on this, but there wasn't much interest, so it fizzled out, as they do.
IME, they do alter the sound, very noticably. I find using mains transformers gives good results - even wiki seems to agree that "lower quality" transformers are best for guitar applications. If I ever get a halfway-decent mic, I'll put some recordings up, so people can hear the difference.
Actually I saw your thread but I heard that from somewhere else. I guess mains transformers aren't built to handle high frequencies (In Canada mains freq is 60hz) and maybe they attenuate a lot of the harshness of solid state distortion? I always liked my music to have a lot more mid-tones and low end than most prefer.
A sudden fascination with tubes got me into electronics in the first place so I didn't even think to hook one up to an SS amp. I managed to find what looks to be either a mains or telephone transformer but I couldn't find anything about it and was thinking about using it as the OPT for my project. I'm not looking for amazing sound quality. I have a half stack for that
Anything sounds better than those little practice cubes anyways.I also enjoy just pointless experimenting and I managed to find a coil of steel wire so I spray painted it to insulate it and I'll use it to make a toroid core. Yeah it's not ferrite but steel is mostly iron. I also enjoy metal work and was thinking about making my own custom e-i core transfo just for fun. But exams are coming up so I don't have the time to plan it all out atm. Hopefully I'll get back to it soon.
I've only had a quick look at what the transformer does to the sound, using Dad's scope.
I'm going to have a proper look and take some photos. You're probably right on the high frequencies, however - you can play a solo right up to 18th fret on the high e-string, and there's still plenty of output. I expect any further than that is an artifact of the driver, but I can't say for sure.
You might wish to try the transformer with your half-stack - get some cheap cables and solder in your transformer, give that a try. I liked the sound of a 50VA EI transformer, but it was much too large and heavy, so I used a nearly as good 30VA torodial.
If you do want to try it, buy one that's of decent power rating, to reduce losses - every decibel counts when you're up against a bassist.
Let us know how your home made transformer works out (feel free to put it on my thread if you like)
Chris
I'm going to have a proper look and take some photos. You're probably right on the high frequencies, however - you can play a solo right up to 18th fret on the high e-string, and there's still plenty of output. I expect any further than that is an artifact of the driver, but I can't say for sure.
You might wish to try the transformer with your half-stack - get some cheap cables and solder in your transformer, give that a try. I liked the sound of a 50VA EI transformer, but it was much too large and heavy, so I used a nearly as good 30VA torodial.
If you do want to try it, buy one that's of decent power rating, to reduce losses - every decibel counts when you're up against a bassist.
Let us know how your home made transformer works out (feel free to put it on my thread if you like)
Chris
Well my half stack is a tube amp so it has an output transformer already and I really like the tone I'm getting already. There is a faint buzziness to it but that might be because I haven't had the volume past 1 yet (it goes up to 12) so it might not be enough to properly drive the power tubes even though it's loud enough to hurt your ears at that level. I use an overdrive pedal put even with out it it's still incredibly loud.
For a guitar amp a mains transformer like that might be fine or maybe not I don't know. Most of the stuff I read on tubes is done by the people who are into hifi stuff. When they say high frequency I think they mean 8-10Khz and of course human hearing goes up to 20Khz so it makes them cringe. But for us guitar players - we design our stuff to distort not to accurately reproduce sound so we probably do a lot of stuff they don't endorse.
Are you using just an isolation transfo or did you actually pick one to give the right impedance? I also took apart some dead ATX power supplies and they have these switching transformers that are kind of cool. Apparently they're made for high freq (like into the Mhz) and everyone says they're useless but I want to play with them. Worse comes to worse I could maybe I could just use 1 winding as a choke? We'll see what happens.
I'm guessing that the power soak devices use transformers for an intended impedance mismatch so it drives the speakers less? The guitar tech at my local store is cool and we talk about amps from time to time. They said they used to be just huge resistors but they occasionally burned up so I don't know how they work now. Because I've been wanting one but buying the amp cleaned me out lol. I really prefer power amp distortion. Even tube preamps sound buzzy when you drive them hard.
I've read a lot of people with the same amp didn't like the sound until they changed the tubes so eventually I'll get some nice NOS 12AX7s for it I guess.
I figure making a transformer can't be too hard (as in actually building it , not designing it). I like working with tools so it sounds like fun. This guy got good results:
http://europa.spaceports.com/~fishbake/ot1/ot.htm
Speaking of which, one of the power transformers I'm using came out of an enclosure that was completely made of plastic. It doesn't have any bolts or brackets. It's just held together (apparantly) by the windings and this really heavy tape around the edges holding the laminations together. It needs to be grounded it right? What if I attach it to the wooden cabinet of the amp and not the chassis? Does it have to be grounded if it doesn't touch metal?
But yeah, for any of you more experienced guys, is the "tube" sound really because of the tubes or just the transformer? Any opinions?
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Mine goes upto 10KHz and I am 53. I tested it with my signal generator and power amp.
It changes with age and sex.
Women can usually hear a little higher than men.
The transformer I used was a 12-0-12, so it's effectively an isolation transformer. I wanted to use the 230-0-230 windings, but the resistance was far too high. The idea to use a mains transformer came from wiki, which states that the output transformers of guitar amps are usually of much lower quality than those used in hifi. I decided that a mains transformer was as low quality as you can get, and went to pick one from the garage.
You're probably right about that. Doing so means you can achieve saturation, but at a much lower level. Eminence has worked on something that means you can change the magnetic flux density, via a control on the back of the speaker. The idea behind it is similar.
I grounded mine with the 0V tap, which went to the speaker ground and the amp negative output, which is referenced to ground. I put tape around the other windings (wrapped individually first, then bunched together). I then bolted it to the wooden cabinet.
Chris
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Cool Website, it's takin me 2 1/2 half hours to get to this part of the thread because of that link, lol. Even learned a little "Little Wing" while I was there.
I am very interested in trying this transformer in my 1/4 stack S.S. Marshall 100w. It might be just the thing, time to start modding this thing.
Can you clarify the wiring of the transformer for me? Is the speaker wired to the secondary or primary? Does it have to be center tapped? (I assume not)
I've got transformers coming out the ying-yang right now, 12v Vanilla ones, a Hammond 270, Hammond Output Xformers and even got a Schumacher.
I would appreciate it! Thanks Noodlers.
I am very interested in trying this transformer in my 1/4 stack S.S. Marshall 100w. It might be just the thing, time to start modding this thing.
Can you clarify the wiring of the transformer for me? Is the speaker wired to the secondary or primary? Does it have to be center tapped? (I assume not)
I've got transformers coming out the ying-yang right now, 12v Vanilla ones, a Hammond 270, Hammond Output Xformers and even got a Schumacher.
I would appreciate it! Thanks Noodlers.
Yeah, sorry. I was on a week's skiing holiday, so I haven't been replying.
I'll explain the drawing here.
You'll need a tranformer of suitable VA rating. 100VA for a 100W head, etc.
It needs two secondaries, because having only one means you can't keep the voltage the same. Anyway, you wire the speaker to one of the secondaries. Say you picked a 30-0-30 transformer. You'd put the speaker positive terminal to the first 30V winding, then the amplifier positive output to the second 30V winding. The 0V is shared.
Important: you must insulate the mains taps. It's a transformer, so you'll get lots of voltage out from those, so tape them individually, then tape them all together, to ensure they don't go astray.
Chris
I'll explain the drawing here.
You'll need a tranformer of suitable VA rating. 100VA for a 100W head, etc.
It needs two secondaries, because having only one means you can't keep the voltage the same. Anyway, you wire the speaker to one of the secondaries. Say you picked a 30-0-30 transformer. You'd put the speaker positive terminal to the first 30V winding, then the amplifier positive output to the second 30V winding. The 0V is shared.
Important: you must insulate the mains taps. It's a transformer, so you'll get lots of voltage out from those, so tape them individually, then tape them all together, to ensure they don't go astray.
Chris
Attachments
It's no problem. Thanks for trying it. Having only me ranting and raving about it has little effect.
I'd advise you make it switchable, so you can choose between transformer on/off, so you can get a direct comparison.
My amp's on the upgrade again. Bigger, beefier PSU, with a transformer rated at 3x the amplifier's output, a 10A rectifier, and a few 10,000uF caps thrown in, just to be sure. Also replacing the transistors, with something more powerful. I'll have to get the scope out, make sure it's not oscillating.
I'd advise you make it switchable, so you can choose between transformer on/off, so you can get a direct comparison.
My amp's on the upgrade again. Bigger, beefier PSU, with a transformer rated at 3x the amplifier's output, a 10A rectifier, and a few 10,000uF caps thrown in, just to be sure. Also replacing the transistors, with something more powerful. I'll have to get the scope out, make sure it's not oscillating.
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