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Old 3rd February 2012, 10:52 AM   #2011
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According to NwAvGuy's O2 docs, "This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License." As it stands, that is your contract. You and he may want to hash out details.
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Old 3rd February 2012, 10:54 AM   #2012
Atilla is offline Atilla  Norway
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I can hear low-volume distorted output when the amp is *off*. Anyone ever experienced this?

The level out from my soundcard is quite high, that might be related.
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Old 3rd February 2012, 12:37 PM   #2013
regal is offline regal  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fivetide View Post
This will be my first headphone amp build and thanks to RocketScientist for all the hard work designing it and also for the all the hard work Jokener has put into the group buy, putting up with not to nice comments as well.
I have a quick question, I will be building some high end wooden enclosures for this HF amp, Itís a new venture, I have several threads on aesthetics in music reproduction equipment scattered around the tinterweb. Iím looking to combine art and music reproduction and see what comes out of the melting pot, like I said itís a new venture and still in the ideas stage. But if this Amp is anywhere near as good as people have said then I would like to use it in combination with my hand made cases. Of course I will name the HF amp the O2 and will make all the references to your site. But I will have to charge people for them. How do I stand with respect to copy right etc ? I will be marketing them as a handmade case incorporating the O2 rather than just a HF amp.
Why don't you just sell the handmade cases. I for one just think profiting off an opensource design is harmful to th hobby, RS has done a lot to dispell myths and ripoffs that are prevailent in this hobby and what he altumately is achieving hear is teaching people how to fish rather than giving a fish.

How about selling the cases with customization without the amp, most people that enjoy amp design and building hate case work. A lot of the people who breach the contracts and unethitically profit on someone elses work are the ones posting fancy casework at the other forums, they'll build you a complete O2 with the fancy case for $500 (just not a fan of this). Its why Headwize died and why we don't share designs on any of the forums very often any more.

There is a real demand for a good case guy, especially if you did aluminum and tubes. Also the headamp fad is not a sustainable business model, the money is with well computer integrated DAC's.
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Old 3rd February 2012, 12:52 PM   #2014
Jokener is offline Jokener  Germany
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I respectfully disagree. A little.

For one, I would also like a separate case. This is where I can agree with you.
I have designed a few myself (for the O2) and will manufacture them this spring.
Afterwards they will be made available for purchase (CNC machined from stainless steel, so price will be north of 50€).
Any 'competition' in this area would be greatly appreciated, because taste differs and there are more than enough customers to support this.

But a well-built O2 in a nice enclosure, maybe complete with a PSU, would be great for many people out there.
If I had not jumped in this head-first, I might still be sitting in front of my pre-war Weller and wonder if I were able to solder it.
Some have offered build-services, so why not offer a complete amplifier?
And if it is openly advertised as an O2-design, I see no problem in asking 1000€ for it.
It would be a problem if it were advertised as 'the next great piece of kit'.
But a Swarovski-covered O2 for $10000 just might be right for someone with bad taste and loads of disposable income :-)

And since Fivetide asked about this so openly, I would be inclined to put him in the 'honest person with a valid interest in earning some money'-category.
-> Ready-built O2 in a nice case for somewhere between 100 and 250€. Depending on the case and build-quality, this is a valid value proposal for many potential buyers.
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Old 3rd February 2012, 12:58 PM   #2015
Turbon is offline Turbon  Sweden
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Default Jokener - ODAC

Hi Jokener!

You are doing a good work as always.
Will you try to get the ODAC to your offers when the time comes?
If yes, set me up for one please.

Brgds
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Old 3rd February 2012, 12:59 PM   #2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post
Why don't you just sell the handmade cases. I for one just think profiting off an opensource design is harmful to th hobby, RS has done a lot to dispell myths and ripoffs that are prevailent in this hobby and what he altumately is achieving hear is teaching people how to fish rather than giving a fish.

How about selling the cases with customization without the amp, most people that enjoy amp design and building hate case work. A lot of the people who breach the contracts and unethitically profit on someone elses work are the ones posting fancy casework at the other forums, they'll build you a complete O2 with the fancy case for $500 (just not a fan of this). Its why Headwize died and why we don't share designs on any of the forums very often any more.

There is a real demand for a good case guy, especially if you did aluminum and tubes. Also the headamp fad is not a sustainable business model, the money is with well computer integrated DAC's.
I totally agree I would much rather spend the time designing and making the cases, you have no argument from me at all. Quite frankly I donít really enjoy all the soldering etc or buying the parts and so on. The only caveat I would add is if someone who buys the case also wants the amp fitting or as a complete unit, I would have to consider supplying it. Or the other scenario would be that I make the cases and sell them, and the person who bought it, adds the amp and sells it on for greater profit. Either way my principal focus will be on the case design and creation.
I will be working mainly in metal and wood and experimenting with resins.
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Old 3rd February 2012, 01:13 PM   #2017
Jokener is offline Jokener  Germany
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@Turbon: Time will tell.
I asked RocketScientist about it and he said it might be a licensing-issue.
-> I would have to open a business, apply for the license (maybe pay for it) and then it is an SMD design, so I would have to have it manufactured in China.
While that is an interesting idea, it was never my plan to become an actual dealer.
My job is somewhere else and I can only make so much profit with this, before it becomes a problem.
(Imagine an engineer at Mercedes or BMW to open a company and earn a second salary off of it. No supervisor would believe it, if you told him it didn't reduce productivity.)

I will most definately offer the ODA (not ODAC) though.
And I'll try to be the first guy with the PCB design and I'll order an express-batch for the early adopters and then a couple hundred boards for those with more time.
(The only difference being a couple €'s in price per board for expedited access to the manufacturing line.)
Also, I will offer the component kits for the ODA as well as enclosures and power supplies.
All of that will happen ASAP as RocketScientist's schedule allows. But we will have to be patient, because in contrast to me, he is not making ANY money in this.

And finally: I might be able to buy a large batch of the ODAC's and offer them at a reduced price.
Or at least as an addition to the ODA so people can order everything through me for their convenience.

I will make the necessary announcements as soon as this happens.
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Old 3rd February 2012, 01:19 PM   #2018
Turbon is offline Turbon  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokener View Post
@Turbon: Time will tell.
I asked RocketScientist about it and he said it might be a licensing-issue.
-> I would have to open a business, apply for the license (maybe pay for it) and then it is an SMD design, so I would have to have it manufactured in China.
While that is an interesting idea, it was never my plan to become an actual dealer.
My job is somewhere else and I can only make so much profit with this, before it becomes a problem.
(Imagine an engineer at Mercedes or BMW to open a company and earn a second salary off of it. No supervisor would believe it, if you told him it didn't reduce productivity.)

I will most definately offer the ODA (not ODAC) though.
And I'll try to be the first guy with the PCB design and I'll order an express-batch for the early adopters and then a couple hundred boards for those with more time.
(The only difference being a couple €'s in price per board for expedited access to the manufacturing line.)
Also, I will offer the component kits for the ODA as well as enclosures and power supplies.
All of that will happen ASAP as RocketScientist's schedule allows. But we will have to be patient, because in contrast to me, he is not making ANY money in this.

And finally: I might be able to buy a large batch of the ODAC's and offer them at a reduced price.
Or at least as an addition to the ODA so people can order everything through me for their convenience.

I will make the necessary announcements as soon as this happens.
OK, I'll put in an order for 2 ODA's in parts and one of the ready built ODAC's whenever they are available. Starting to have too many well sounding DAC's now.

Brgds


If it is hard to keep everything in mind Jokener, put in a spreadsheet :-)
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Last edited by Turbon; 3rd February 2012 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2012, 01:30 PM   #2019
Jokener is offline Jokener  Germany
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Sounds great.

I will have to buy another Raacostat if this keeps going like it is.
The first one is already full if new orders arrive ^^
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Old 3rd February 2012, 01:35 PM   #2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokener View Post
Any 'competition' in this area would be greatly appreciated, because taste differs and there are more than enough customers to support this.
.
I will do my best, though it wonít be mass production each case will be unique and tailored for a specific type of amp or dac etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokener View Post
But a well-built O2 in a nice enclosure, maybe complete with a PSU, would be great for many people out there.
.
It would be a matter of supply and demand, I will supply the case only without hesitation but if someone wants the full package, as I have said I would have to either outsource the build or make it myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokener View Post
And since Fivetide asked about this so openly, I would be inclined to put him in the 'honest person with a valid interest in earning some money'-category.
Thnaks for that comment I am trying to be open and honest about this .
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