Martin
If you can also justify the real estate, I would look closely at the Hemp FR8 builds. This driver, properly cooked is almost too good to be true. It will address your interest in "warmth." This is a musician's speaker driver, and is insanely sweet with a nice little single ended triode amp. Have a look at www.tonetubby.com to see what the Head Chef is doing for musicians, with his hemp recipe. I own the Omega SuperHemps. www.omegaloudspeakers.com
I own a pair of BIB's with the Fostex FE168EZ, and it never fails to communicate the inner message of very well produced music. Bass is full and fundamentals are well represented. If I had more than a condo, I would head STRAIGHT for the Hemp BIB, perhaps cutting out the whizzer, and adding a Fostex tweeter horn. The cone will make 9KHz without the whiz.
Both the Fostex 168 and Hemp FR8 will make an honest 94db thru the presence band, when fully worked in.
If you can also justify the real estate, I would look closely at the Hemp FR8 builds. This driver, properly cooked is almost too good to be true. It will address your interest in "warmth." This is a musician's speaker driver, and is insanely sweet with a nice little single ended triode amp. Have a look at www.tonetubby.com to see what the Head Chef is doing for musicians, with his hemp recipe. I own the Omega SuperHemps. www.omegaloudspeakers.com
I own a pair of BIB's with the Fostex FE168EZ, and it never fails to communicate the inner message of very well produced music. Bass is full and fundamentals are well represented. If I had more than a condo, I would head STRAIGHT for the Hemp BIB, perhaps cutting out the whizzer, and adding a Fostex tweeter horn. The cone will make 9KHz without the whiz.
Both the Fostex 168 and Hemp FR8 will make an honest 94db thru the presence band, when fully worked in.
Re: Too much... info overload...
Greets!
Hmm, call me old fashioned, but between $$ not being a major factor and wanting a 'warm' presentation, the 8" F200A seems the Fostex 'no-brainer' choice to me, though as always YMMV. 211 driven, life would be good.......
GM
Martin Prothero said:
Kensai said:
Greets!
Hmm, call me old fashioned, but between $$ not being a major factor and wanting a 'warm' presentation, the 8" F200A seems the Fostex 'no-brainer' choice to me, though as always YMMV. 211 driven, life would be good.......
GM
I haven't heard the F200a, but I'd like to. Didn't they go all-out for an LE-8 replica with that one? Powered by 211s, reckon I'd be a happy camper.
Was this the sort of thing you had in mind for the F200a Greg, or would you go for a different CSA? It seems happy enough with a 126in^2 CSA, albeit slightly rolled off at the bottom end, but I reckon the driver would be happier with the greater volume.
Line 160in
Zdriver 32in
Sl 190in^2.
Scott
Was this the sort of thing you had in mind for the F200a Greg, or would you go for a different CSA? It seems happy enough with a 126in^2 CSA, albeit slightly rolled off at the bottom end, but I reckon the driver would be happier with the greater volume.
Line 160in
Zdriver 32in
Sl 190in^2.
Scott
Attachments
Hi everyone!
Just thought I'd let you know my progress so far! I've been tweaking my fe108's like crazy and have arrived at a VERY nice point so far. I have had the drivers out about 20 times!
Straight pipe BIB's
I have lined the cab with 4mm pure wool felt along the back wall and the front wall to the driver and then used 2mm felt along the rest of the back wall to the opening. I found that the 4mm deadened some of the dynamics and took some life out of the sound. I experimented with pure wool stuffing beginning with it being filled up to the driver (.434 length) and then progressively reduced the amount to a relatively small amount at the closed end. I'll leave this as is for a while until I can listen for an idea on what to do for further tweaks in the horn area.
I have found that the most sensitive area is surrounding the driver. I have found it to be of utmost importance for the clarity and the reduction of distortion of the upper frequencies to use felt to cover ALL reflective surfaces near the rear of the driver, including the magnet. I'll even felt the hole cutout too when I get a chance, with 1mm felt.
I also believe that with this particular driver (simply because of my lack of experience with other drivers) if one is not using a supra baffle of some sort you are really missing out!!!! My little contraption out of felt has made the most significant difference. (well, more like the icing on the cake.) Like someone said, it seems to do nice things indeed to the baffle step (is that right?) whatever...I concur and it is worth the effort.
I think the drivers are also just starting to open up too, the highs were worryingly bright for a while and the bass was rather weak, but they have definately turned a corner with about 150 hours on them. I am looking forward to the next 150!
Finally, I am confident I can get about another 20%-30% improvement out of them through further tweaking and tidying up connections etc. If they sound this good with the thoroughly ordinary amp and CD player I have, then I'll be blown away when I feed them with something decent!
I just got to say, at this point they are superb, any improvement form here on in is an absolute bonus and more than I ever expected!
Thanks to everyone who has helped thus far!
Cheers Stroop
Just thought I'd let you know my progress so far! I've been tweaking my fe108's like crazy and have arrived at a VERY nice point so far. I have had the drivers out about 20 times!
Straight pipe BIB's
I have lined the cab with 4mm pure wool felt along the back wall and the front wall to the driver and then used 2mm felt along the rest of the back wall to the opening. I found that the 4mm deadened some of the dynamics and took some life out of the sound. I experimented with pure wool stuffing beginning with it being filled up to the driver (.434 length) and then progressively reduced the amount to a relatively small amount at the closed end. I'll leave this as is for a while until I can listen for an idea on what to do for further tweaks in the horn area.
I have found that the most sensitive area is surrounding the driver. I have found it to be of utmost importance for the clarity and the reduction of distortion of the upper frequencies to use felt to cover ALL reflective surfaces near the rear of the driver, including the magnet. I'll even felt the hole cutout too when I get a chance, with 1mm felt.
I also believe that with this particular driver (simply because of my lack of experience with other drivers) if one is not using a supra baffle of some sort you are really missing out!!!! My little contraption out of felt has made the most significant difference. (well, more like the icing on the cake.) Like someone said, it seems to do nice things indeed to the baffle step (is that right?) whatever...I concur and it is worth the effort.
I think the drivers are also just starting to open up too, the highs were worryingly bright for a while and the bass was rather weak, but they have definately turned a corner with about 150 hours on them. I am looking forward to the next 150!
Finally, I am confident I can get about another 20%-30% improvement out of them through further tweaking and tidying up connections etc. If they sound this good with the thoroughly ordinary amp and CD player I have, then I'll be blown away when I feed them with something decent!
I just got to say, at this point they are superb, any improvement form here on in is an absolute bonus and more than I ever expected!
Thanks to everyone who has helped thus far!
Cheers Stroop
FE168ESig
Thanks for your replies. Espeacially the link to Zilla's site. Wow, everything I asked under one site. I have already spent far too long comparing specs and frequ charts!
It does look to me like I might go with the 168E Sigs. Just because of the bottom end is still 85db a little lower in the range than others. I cannot judge the overall sound from the charts though. I guess this is the suck-it-and-see bit. The little bit of warmth I seek can come from the Pre when I build it...
Can I just clarify a few things? When reading the specs on the charts, it gives the SM measurement. Does this mean that any variation of dims will go, as long as it adds up to this figure? I mean, if I wanted a thinner looking cabinet when viewed from the front, I simply make the side length longer to compensate?
But there must be a minimum width you can go to before interfering with the breathing space of the driver?
The SM for the 168 is 74.25. So does that mean I can make the cab 7.425" wide and 10" deep? I take it these measurements are internal and not accounting for any damping material?
How close can I go to the driver's edge with the cab?
Also, I really like the aesthetics of Terry's design with the solid wood surround for the driver. I guess this is not just for looks and allows the driver to sit out further allowing more breathing room behind? I have a lovely slab of 1" European oak that would be about the right size for two of these. I could make the main cab/pipe from 3/4" MDF with an oak veneer and it would look a bit special...hmmm
Martin
Thanks for your replies. Espeacially the link to Zilla's site. Wow, everything I asked under one site. I have already spent far too long comparing specs and frequ charts!
It does look to me like I might go with the 168E Sigs. Just because of the bottom end is still 85db a little lower in the range than others. I cannot judge the overall sound from the charts though. I guess this is the suck-it-and-see bit. The little bit of warmth I seek can come from the Pre when I build it...
Can I just clarify a few things? When reading the specs on the charts, it gives the SM measurement. Does this mean that any variation of dims will go, as long as it adds up to this figure? I mean, if I wanted a thinner looking cabinet when viewed from the front, I simply make the side length longer to compensate?
But there must be a minimum width you can go to before interfering with the breathing space of the driver?
The SM for the 168 is 74.25. So does that mean I can make the cab 7.425" wide and 10" deep? I take it these measurements are internal and not accounting for any damping material?
How close can I go to the driver's edge with the cab?
Also, I really like the aesthetics of Terry's design with the solid wood surround for the driver. I guess this is not just for looks and allows the driver to sit out further allowing more breathing room behind? I have a lovely slab of 1" European oak that would be about the right size for two of these. I could make the main cab/pipe from 3/4" MDF with an oak veneer and it would look a bit special...hmmm
Martin
Martin
A good choice; the higher the mileage on that driver, the "warmer," and more articulate they become, until they fit your ears like a favorite pair of jeans. I would like to hear a good EL84 type amp with these drivers in the BIB, for sweet, and resolve.
I owned a pair of the Fostex F200A, and IMO they are not in the same league as the Sigmae; Perhaps with a more synergistic amp, or source, or whatever, but I was not all that impressed with them, and the FX200 killed them sonically, as I had both in the big Rx box at the same time. They are well designed and built, looking more like something from Hughes Tool, than from Fostex of Japan, and a great take on the LE-8, but the 168 is a bullseye. Both TC and Louis offered to me that arguably the FE168EZ was the best driver of the bunch and lamented the fact that no one was doing much about them. ie: you will not be disappointed. Ray Collins built a pair of BIB.168 and is off listening to them right now, I bet. Hope this helps abit.
A good choice; the higher the mileage on that driver, the "warmer," and more articulate they become, until they fit your ears like a favorite pair of jeans. I would like to hear a good EL84 type amp with these drivers in the BIB, for sweet, and resolve.
I owned a pair of the Fostex F200A, and IMO they are not in the same league as the Sigmae; Perhaps with a more synergistic amp, or source, or whatever, but I was not all that impressed with them, and the FX200 killed them sonically, as I had both in the big Rx box at the same time. They are well designed and built, looking more like something from Hughes Tool, than from Fostex of Japan, and a great take on the LE-8, but the 168 is a bullseye. Both TC and Louis offered to me that arguably the FE168EZ was the best driver of the bunch and lamented the fact that no one was doing much about them. ie: you will not be disappointed. Ray Collins built a pair of BIB.168 and is off listening to them right now, I bet. Hope this helps abit.
Planet10, ..You have mail...
Tomorrow I am going to the NAMM show in Anaheim as a guest of Tone Tubby, hemp rockers from San Rafael, and hope to impress upon them the need for more cones, specifically a 6.5" with all eleven secret herbs & spices. Real hemp cones are in shape and color. Louis Chochos will be there talking up his prototype open baffle guitar speaker, which went from Carlos Santana's house, over to the Doobie Bros. motorcycle club, and Pat Simmons should be there to noodle around abit on it!!
Hemp cones and "doobie" brothers; how NorCal...
Tomorrow I am going to the NAMM show in Anaheim as a guest of Tone Tubby, hemp rockers from San Rafael, and hope to impress upon them the need for more cones, specifically a 6.5" with all eleven secret herbs & spices. Real hemp cones are
in shape and color. Louis Chochos will be there talking up his prototype open baffle guitar speaker, which went from Carlos Santana's house, over to the Doobie Bros. motorcycle club, and Pat Simmons should be there to noodle around abit on it!!Hemp cones and "doobie" brothers; how NorCal...
dmason,
Correct you are.....still listening to them and still loving them!
I have them doing double duty as rear channels for HT and, after my wife goes to bed, I switch them to the B speaker output on the A/V for some late night public radio programing while scanning the DIY threads. Significant difference in performance when they are in corners.....just amazing.
Hope you are well.
Ray
Correct you are.....still listening to them and still loving them!
I have them doing double duty as rear channels for HT and, after my wife goes to bed, I switch them to the B speaker output on the A/V for some late night public radio programing while scanning the DIY threads. Significant difference in performance when they are in corners.....just amazing.
Hope you are well.
Ray
Re: BIB 168EZ
Bullseye! Very nice indeed.
Yeah, looks like Jeff's site is temporarily down. I wouldn't worry -it's rare for him to have problems & he usually get's them sorted PDQ.
albertli said:I thought I really am one of the happy camper. They are under break-in period with a bit more than 100 hrs. It already sounds warmth and lush. Bass is more than I expected. Thanks for all guys work hard on this threads especially Scott & Greg.
Bullseye! Very nice indeed.
Yeah, looks like Jeff's site is temporarily down. I wouldn't worry -it's rare for him to have problems & he usually get's them sorted PDQ.
VERY nice indeed! Looks like Maple?
Tell us about that amp which looks like maybe Mr. Beck's 807, or 1625? Is it the Electra-Print circuit perhaps? Very interesting
dmason,
Yes, they're in maple. boxes are CNC cut with finger joint, glue only absolutely no nails. legs are made of rose wood, 2 out front and 1 in the middle at the back.
Hope they will surprise me more after the break-in
That amp is 1625 in triode
Tell us about that amp which looks like maybe Mr. Beck's 807, or 1625? Is it the Electra-Print circuit perhaps? Very interesting
dmason,
Yes, they're in maple. boxes are CNC cut with finger joint, glue only absolutely no nails. legs are made of rose wood, 2 out front and 1 in the middle at the back.
Hope they will surprise me more after the break-in
That amp is 1625 in triode
More pictures are needed!
Shots of amp + schemas? That is the amp I wanted to build for some time now. Feel free to email me.
I also had the cuts made for my BIB; NOT that I cant cut straight, just that I wanted it done that way. I knocked them up, but sent them for veneer. (mahogany stain Cherry, French polish) MMMmm
Shots of amp + schemas? That is the amp I wanted to build for some time now. Feel free to email me.
I also had the cuts made for my BIB; NOT that I cant cut straight, just that I wanted it done that way. I knocked them up, but sent them for veneer. (mahogany stain Cherry, French polish) MMMmm
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
Yup, my T1 was down all day today at the office. I hate when that happens because all my websites are down! Clients get mad at me. Verizon says it's the wire on the pole blah blah blah... could be rain... bees (buzzzzzz) or loose connections. Sucks whatever it is.
Seems to be up now. I just got home from krav... can barely lift my arms to the keyboard.
Peace,
Godzilla
Yup, my T1 was down all day today at the office. I hate when that happens because all my websites are down! Clients get mad at me. Verizon says it's the wire on the pole blah blah blah... could be rain... bees (buzzzzzz) or loose connections. Sucks whatever it is.
Seems to be up now. I just got home from krav... can barely lift my arms to the keyboard.
Peace,
Godzilla
Mr albertli,
I note in the photo that your speaks aren't in the room corners.
Is this how you listen to them? Or is that just for the photo? They are against the wall which should help a lot and I guess one is kinda in a corner.....Would be very interesting if you thought that they put out enought bass without being in corners...
I note in the photo that your speaks aren't in the room corners.
Is this how you listen to them? Or is that just for the photo? They are against the wall which should help a lot and I guess one is kinda in a corner.....Would be very interesting if you thought that they put out enought bass without being in corners...
FE168ESig
Hello Gentlemen (and the rest of us).
So, I have been deiciding on which drivers to put into my not yet built BIBs. I think I am pretty much settled on the 168E Sigs (only other option seems to be the 167 or 166 of TC's oringinal). Are they all similar?
I see a few of you are from the UK too. Where do you source them from in the UK? Is it cheaper to buy on the net from the US and pay import Tax and VAT and postage? Madisounds are offering them at $139 each and $60 to post to the UK. Can this be bettered anywhere?
The next major question is amps...I was thinking about adding the Decware Pre kit to my gainclone chip amp, but now I am wondering if I should try to stretch to a SET or SEP, and ditch the chip/valve pre idea.
What amps are suitable for the 168Esigs (94.5db) at a reasonable cost? I am looking at selling other stuff to raise funds for this project. I can go to £450 ($900) but would rather it was less, and then I can pick up some headphones too!
Any suggestions (or of where else to look on the forum)
Thanks
Martin
Hello Gentlemen (and the rest of us).
So, I have been deiciding on which drivers to put into my not yet built BIBs. I think I am pretty much settled on the 168E Sigs (only other option seems to be the 167 or 166 of TC's oringinal). Are they all similar?
I see a few of you are from the UK too. Where do you source them from in the UK? Is it cheaper to buy on the net from the US and pay import Tax and VAT and postage? Madisounds are offering them at $139 each and $60 to post to the UK. Can this be bettered anywhere?
The next major question is amps...I was thinking about adding the Decware Pre kit to my gainclone chip amp, but now I am wondering if I should try to stretch to a SET or SEP, and ditch the chip/valve pre idea.
What amps are suitable for the 168Esigs (94.5db) at a reasonable cost? I am looking at selling other stuff to raise funds for this project. I can go to £450 ($900) but would rather it was less, and then I can pick up some headphones too!
Any suggestions (or of where else to look on the forum)
Thanks
Martin
Terry never used the 166 or 167, at least he didn't mention it on-line, though I gather from some private conversations that he did try at least the 166 to good effect.
The Sigma is the better unit. If you can afford it, go with that, and you'll probably never want another speaker. The other two are excellent drivers if you can't stretch to the Sigmas.
Wilmslow audio stock Fostex units. Spectrumaudio.de also have them for 160 Euros each & I gather are excellent to do business with, though you'd have to add VAT + postage to their price.
Build the speakers first. Sort the amp afterward, when you know more exactly how much you'll have to spend. A low damping factor gainclone should be fine with these things.
The Sigma is the better unit. If you can afford it, go with that, and you'll probably never want another speaker. The other two are excellent drivers if you can't stretch to the Sigmas.
Wilmslow audio stock Fostex units. Spectrumaudio.de also have them for 160 Euros each & I gather are excellent to do business with, though you'd have to add VAT + postage to their price.
Build the speakers first. Sort the amp afterward, when you know more exactly how much you'll have to spend. A low damping factor gainclone should be fine with these things.