Since I found that my local hardware store (mom and pop shop, Asian style!) can get me hard blue foam boards, I've been coming up with different ideas.
I took the open part of the Nola Brio, and placed a W8-1772 in there. That small OB is sitting on a sealed W8-1363SBF.
I then used two DACs, joined together in Aggregate mode within OS X, which JRiver recognises as 4 outputs. Chose "Quadraphonic" and it copied the right and left channels to the 3rd and 4th channels. It worked and I got sound.
I didn't have time to tweak anything besides some level between the sealed sub and the open fullrange.
Things to play with:
- I have the XO set at 300Hz. I might play with that to see if I can go up to 500Hz. I'll also play with the curves. Right now it's 24dB on the sub, and 12dB on the fullrange, as a quick test.
- I have to find out if the Quadraphonic setup in JRiver switches the phase of channels 3 and 4.
- I'll probably add an LT to the sealed sub.
- Once I figure out the XO, I will add DRC to the mix.
Then, when I get things figured out, I'll get some nice enclosures for them.
Could be fun!
I took the open part of the Nola Brio, and placed a W8-1772 in there. That small OB is sitting on a sealed W8-1363SBF.
I then used two DACs, joined together in Aggregate mode within OS X, which JRiver recognises as 4 outputs. Chose "Quadraphonic" and it copied the right and left channels to the 3rd and 4th channels. It worked and I got sound.
I didn't have time to tweak anything besides some level between the sealed sub and the open fullrange.
Things to play with:
- I have the XO set at 300Hz. I might play with that to see if I can go up to 500Hz. I'll also play with the curves. Right now it's 24dB on the sub, and 12dB on the fullrange, as a quick test.
- I have to find out if the Quadraphonic setup in JRiver switches the phase of channels 3 and 4.
- I'll probably add an LT to the sealed sub.
- Once I figure out the XO, I will add DRC to the mix.
Then, when I get things figured out, I'll get some nice enclosures for them.
Could be fun!
Attachments
Great! We often forget that open-baffle does not have to mean large baffle. You could sew a square 'sock' to put over it- no one would know it was "abby-normal". Like some of Danny Ritchie's designs on his gr-research site.
Nice looking build there and bet sounds pretty good. You may have to deal with too no moving around. Make sure you taste it or that expensive 1888 can take a crash and topple.
Long drywall screws with cardboard "nuts"?
Long drywall screws with cardboard "nuts"?
Why not just copy channels in JRiver's DSP? Setup 4 channels and copy channel 1 & 2 to 3 and 4. That would make them identical.
It's under Mix channels in the PEQ section. I use it a lot 🙂.
wesayso, yes, I know about the Mix channels options. It was a quick test and choosing Quadraphonic in the Mac copied the channels itself. I have to play with that configuration and make sure JRiver still sees the 2 DACs as one unit in Aggregate mode.
X and chrisb, that blue board (XPS?) is quite strong and stiff, plus I'm using wood screws that have extra thick thread. The drivers do not move. Also, since the magnet is located behind the baffle, meaning most of the weight, it doesn't want to topple over.
I may add a backing plate to provide better support.
X and chrisb, that blue board (XPS?) is quite strong and stiff, plus I'm using wood screws that have extra thick thread. The drivers do not move. Also, since the magnet is located behind the baffle, meaning most of the weight, it doesn't want to topple over.
I may add a backing plate to provide better support.
Oh, and by the way, that's a W8-1772, not the 1808 variant that most people use for OB.
The reason is... that's what I had laying around!
I figured since I won't be asking it to do any kind of low bass duty, it should be fine.
The reason is... that's what I had laying around!
I figured since I won't be asking it to do any kind of low bass duty, it should be fine.
First things first... Forgot to thank our first two replies...
Apologies, and thanks adason and boswald
I was able to make some sweeps today. Once again, I couldn't crank it up, this time because of a leaky enclosure. The bass sealed box was not so sealed after all. I could hear wind noise escaping the "seams" and the whole thing was not great. It will need some more work.
Speakers are about in the middle of the long 10m wall, set 2.5m apart and 1m off the back wall. Listening mic is at the other equilateral peak of the triangle.
It started promising. I first adjusted levels between the 2 drivers. Then, after multiple tryouts, I settled on a not so traditional XO. It is set at 500Hz for the bass with 24dB curve, and 300Hz with 12dB curve on the fullrange.
I then tamed the peaks making the W8-1772 usually a bit shouty. Doing so resulted in a nice downslope of about 10dB from start to finish, my FR goal.
Looks like this:
Now, I tamed that hill at 110Hz, and I got this:
Remember the leaky bass enclosure? Here it is, against the other one I made out of plywood. Left is plywood, right is the leaky foam board.
I didn't add any DRC yet, so, I hope it can only improve.
So.........
How does it sound?
Let me get this one out right away... the 3D imaging is out.of.this.world.
I had no idea that opening the back of the speakers would give me this spatial heaven!
There's a great stereo (side to side), but also a huge front to back effect. On recordings that place the singer centre and forward, the voice literally comes out from in front of my feet, with instruments beautifully panned all around behind the singer. The effect is mesmerising. On Pink Floyd songs, it was down right trippy! Jazz singers were luscious, Lorde was cutting through the bass track easily, and because the 2 subs go low enough, it was just... fun! Yello's track was interesting listening to all those sounds bouncing around like watching a tennis match!
I don't know if it's because the XO is higher than usual on the FR, but violin sounds have never had that kind of resolution before. I had the violin playing right in front of me and I could hear the horsehair glide over the strings with all the beautiful harmonics the violin body was producing.
That was for the roses... will do the dirt later. I want to look at stuff first.
But... I know I'm onto something nice, and as soon as I get them nice and rigid enclosures, they will sound even better!
I already got some nice camphor wood blocks for the small OB. Camphor wood looks amazing once stained and varnished, has an amazing smell, and since it's full of camphor resin, it is quite dead when knocking on a piece. Plus, at 5cm thick, it should be plenty rigid!
Apologies, and thanks adason and boswald
I was able to make some sweeps today. Once again, I couldn't crank it up, this time because of a leaky enclosure. The bass sealed box was not so sealed after all. I could hear wind noise escaping the "seams" and the whole thing was not great. It will need some more work.
Speakers are about in the middle of the long 10m wall, set 2.5m apart and 1m off the back wall. Listening mic is at the other equilateral peak of the triangle.
It started promising. I first adjusted levels between the 2 drivers. Then, after multiple tryouts, I settled on a not so traditional XO. It is set at 500Hz for the bass with 24dB curve, and 300Hz with 12dB curve on the fullrange.
I then tamed the peaks making the W8-1772 usually a bit shouty. Doing so resulted in a nice downslope of about 10dB from start to finish, my FR goal.
Looks like this:
Now, I tamed that hill at 110Hz, and I got this:
Remember the leaky bass enclosure? Here it is, against the other one I made out of plywood. Left is plywood, right is the leaky foam board.
I didn't add any DRC yet, so, I hope it can only improve.
So.........
How does it sound?
Let me get this one out right away... the 3D imaging is out.of.this.world.
I had no idea that opening the back of the speakers would give me this spatial heaven!
There's a great stereo (side to side), but also a huge front to back effect. On recordings that place the singer centre and forward, the voice literally comes out from in front of my feet, with instruments beautifully panned all around behind the singer. The effect is mesmerising. On Pink Floyd songs, it was down right trippy! Jazz singers were luscious, Lorde was cutting through the bass track easily, and because the 2 subs go low enough, it was just... fun! Yello's track was interesting listening to all those sounds bouncing around like watching a tennis match!
I don't know if it's because the XO is higher than usual on the FR, but violin sounds have never had that kind of resolution before. I had the violin playing right in front of me and I could hear the horsehair glide over the strings with all the beautiful harmonics the violin body was producing.
That was for the roses... will do the dirt later. I want to look at stuff first.
But... I know I'm onto something nice, and as soon as I get them nice and rigid enclosures, they will sound even better!
I already got some nice camphor wood blocks for the small OB. Camphor wood looks amazing once stained and varnished, has an amazing smell, and since it's full of camphor resin, it is quite dead when knocking on a piece. Plus, at 5cm thick, it should be plenty rigid!
Attachments
Last edited:
No granite/marble OB? 😀
It seems you're well on your way here. The tracking between left and right seems to work marvellous and it's showing trough in your lyrical descriptions.
It seems you're well on your way here. The tracking between left and right seems to work marvellous and it's showing trough in your lyrical descriptions.
Marble OB? I could... but I think the combination of marble bottom, and Camphor wood OB might look good too! It's such a pretty wood, and it smells great too!
I think I'm hooked on OB designs. I never really thought about them before, but I always felt that closed enclosures were lacking a little... OB opens that up while still being pinpoint accurate. They sound really good, to my ears anyway.
I think I'm hooked on OB designs. I never really thought about them before, but I always felt that closed enclosures were lacking a little... OB opens that up while still being pinpoint accurate. They sound really good, to my ears anyway.
Attachments
You are enjoying that ambiance given by the reflected back wave - glad it is working out for you. OB is a real fun treat for the ears and is actually very difficult to get right. Obviously, you got it right because that is how it sounds when done well. Work on getting your crossover to the bass unit transient perfect and you will experience yet another level of realism and enjoyment.
Nice work Perceval. You also now have the opportunity to mix and match tops for the OB to see what sounds good or better/worse. Godzilla has been doing this for some time now with his OB rig with interchangeable tops.
Nice work Perceval. You also now have the opportunity to mix and match tops for the OB to see what sounds good or better/worse. Godzilla has been doing this for some time now with his OB rig with interchangeable tops.
Thanks, X!
You want me to try with a Harsh XO, right? 😉 I will, but will have to wait until I get another free time around the house.
There's already some stuff I want to try. For example, right now, there is a "roof" on the OB. Saw that on the Nola speakers, and figure it might help since my ceiling is quite "hot" reflection-wise. But, I'll have to try if it indeed helps, or not needed.
When I have a quiet moment, I'll cut off the "roof" and see how it will affect the sound in my room.
Interchangeable tops? Hmmm... that might become expensive! My room is quite big, and a little 3-inch driver will not be good enough. That nice TB was quite impressive, even when I had it running full range for a short while. If the 1808 is still even better running full range on an OB, must be quite a thrill.
But I like the FAST concept of freeing the "full range" driver from the low end, so it becomes cleaner higher up. Like I said, there was a realism with the violins that I didn't get before, even using the same drivers but in a ported box.
We'll see how it goes. And I'll pay more attention to Godzilla's posts! 🙂
You want me to try with a Harsh XO, right? 😉 I will, but will have to wait until I get another free time around the house.
There's already some stuff I want to try. For example, right now, there is a "roof" on the OB. Saw that on the Nola speakers, and figure it might help since my ceiling is quite "hot" reflection-wise. But, I'll have to try if it indeed helps, or not needed.
When I have a quiet moment, I'll cut off the "roof" and see how it will affect the sound in my room.
Interchangeable tops? Hmmm... that might become expensive! My room is quite big, and a little 3-inch driver will not be good enough. That nice TB was quite impressive, even when I had it running full range for a short while. If the 1808 is still even better running full range on an OB, must be quite a thrill.
But I like the FAST concept of freeing the "full range" driver from the low end, so it becomes cleaner higher up. Like I said, there was a realism with the violins that I didn't get before, even using the same drivers but in a ported box.
We'll see how it goes. And I'll pay more attention to Godzilla's posts! 🙂
It's not expensive if the interchangeable top is a simple board with a hole in it. You could even make inserts that fit into the board while allowing different smaller cutouts for various size drivers. Like an IEC test baffle.
That wood is dope man!
That wood is dope man!
But the drivers accumulate and it can become expensive! 😉
That wood is quite dope! The 3D patterns once it's polished and epoxied over are so cool.
Father-in-law used to make vases and tables with that wood. Here's the biggest he made, and a pic while we were measuring it to enter the Guinness book of records as the largest Camphor wood vase ever made.
That wood is quite dope! The 3D patterns once it's polished and epoxied over are so cool.
Father-in-law used to make vases and tables with that wood. Here's the biggest he made, and a pic while we were measuring it to enter the Guinness book of records as the largest Camphor wood vase ever made.
Attachments
... great build and nice ideas perceval congratulation and thanks sharing .Have nice research and improvement with your build, that said not sure you right about 3-inch statement 🙂 if we feed your TC9 32 watt it gives 100dB per speaker isn't that loud enough.
Below a TC9 in 10.000liters to model ala OB and it looks around 170Hz it breaks thru linear Xmax limit. Looking at that same curve over in REW in overlay with a BS2 at 500Hz or LR4 plus LR8 at 400Hz those three slopes looks to filter TC9 being down -19dB -30 or -60dB at 170Hz. BS2 500Hz is with thoughts on HARSH and LR4 or LR8 think of FIR XO so that together W8-1363SBF they integrate nice in phase and same polarity, and if ctc distance is at 1/4 wave or below should integrate as a one point source, where symmetric LR will in XO region throw sound waves strait forward but think HARSH will tilt a bit in XO region. Extract those filter slopes from Zaph's TC9 distortion and waterfall plots should give you nice clean violins too, beaming based diameter in IB setup for TC9 verse W8-1772 is the last visual.
Attachments
>>> Godzilla has been doing this for some time now with his OB rig with interchangeable tops.
Perceval, I am working on another OB project with the very cool Eminence Lil' Buddy that looks similar to what you've done.
Feel free to see what I've been playing around with. OB is a great way to go but I do appreciate other designs. And yes, I've accumulated too many drivers over the years.
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com
Perceval, I am working on another OB project with the very cool Eminence Lil' Buddy that looks similar to what you've done.
Feel free to see what I've been playing around with. OB is a great way to go but I do appreciate other designs. And yes, I've accumulated too many drivers over the years.
https://speakerprojects.wordpress.com
Attachments
Alright BYRTT, you won me over! I will try the pair of TC9s you sent me.
Godzilla, do you listen with the speakers so close to the back wall? If I do so with my setup, I lose a lot of imaging and accuracy in spatial clues. I get best of both when drivers are at least 1m off the back wall.
Godzilla, do you listen with the speakers so close to the back wall? If I do so with my setup, I lose a lot of imaging and accuracy in spatial clues. I get best of both when drivers are at least 1m off the back wall.
Hi Perceval,
No pressure regarding TC9 : ) its a lot of work upon all the work you already have done so far and still look into investigations/work with present setup, and can imagine W8-1772 perform great high pass filtered as in present setup, have best audio fun.
No pressure regarding TC9 : ) its a lot of work upon all the work you already have done so far and still look into investigations/work with present setup, and can imagine W8-1772 perform great high pass filtered as in present setup, have best audio fun.
BYRTT,
indeed, the W8-1772 do sound marvellous. I was thinking that beaming at higher frequencies might not be so bad with the OB design. It does give a great stereo image, and yes, the sweet spot is narrow when sitting on the couch, but even when out of the sweet spot, the speakers still sound great.
Moving around the room, the sound is very pleasing, which was the trouble with the line arrays. They were great when sitting on the couch, but if I moved around, I would lose the high frequencies and it was a little unbalanced. Since I also have my dining table in the same room, eating dinner while listening with the OB is a lot more pleasing than with the arrays.
indeed, the W8-1772 do sound marvellous. I was thinking that beaming at higher frequencies might not be so bad with the OB design. It does give a great stereo image, and yes, the sweet spot is narrow when sitting on the couch, but even when out of the sweet spot, the speakers still sound great.
Moving around the room, the sound is very pleasing, which was the trouble with the line arrays. They were great when sitting on the couch, but if I moved around, I would lose the high frequencies and it was a little unbalanced. Since I also have my dining table in the same room, eating dinner while listening with the OB is a lot more pleasing than with the arrays.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.