Hello all.
Please forgive my impatience in this question. I have spent the day reading/researching here and elsewhere, and will continue to do so BUT.....
What I am looking to do is build a satisfying and inexpensive, efficient little high fidelity set up. Cost is key for this rig, as it will be my first build.
So far, I have researched enough to tentitivly determine that I want to build a pair of FH MK3's for my enclosures. I like the idea of the simplicity of full range drivers that I would put in them. Any suggestions on inexpensive yet capable drivers?
What I have been toying with as far as power and source would be a classic iPod providing zeros and ones to the second gen t-amp.
My listening room(s) are small(24x12) and also possibly a larger room at 14x20.
I could used help selection drivers, and also any wisdom on the iPod/t-amp combo. Does this combination of speakers and amp/source sound like a good jumping off point for my new obsession with diy audio?
Please forgive my impatience in this question. I have spent the day reading/researching here and elsewhere, and will continue to do so BUT.....
What I am looking to do is build a satisfying and inexpensive, efficient little high fidelity set up. Cost is key for this rig, as it will be my first build.
So far, I have researched enough to tentitivly determine that I want to build a pair of FH MK3's for my enclosures. I like the idea of the simplicity of full range drivers that I would put in them. Any suggestions on inexpensive yet capable drivers?
What I have been toying with as far as power and source would be a classic iPod providing zeros and ones to the second gen t-amp.
My listening room(s) are small(24x12) and also possibly a larger room at 14x20.
I could used help selection drivers, and also any wisdom on the iPod/t-amp combo. Does this combination of speakers and amp/source sound like a good jumping off point for my new obsession with diy audio?
I've heard multiple great responses on the FF85wk. I just ordered a pair actually. If budget is a concern though, the Tymphany TC9FD18's are going for only $13/ Piece right now, and seem to be popular too.
I personally wouldn't suggest a T-Amp. Pretty much all T-amps are built cheaply with low quality control. Also, they've been outdated to TPA-based amps, with every comparison i've read saying that the TPA based amps sound better. You can get these really cheap from Chinese manufactures, but again, shortcuts have been taken on the amplifier components, and i don't see why anyone would spend their money on poorly implemented designs.
What I would suggest is a gainclone amp kit. It'll give you more than enough power for full-rangers, or even multi-ways if you decide you want to try them in the future. It's also a KISS design, going hand-in-hand with the simplicity philosophy. Chipamp and Audiosector sell kits. Chipamp is more value oriented while Audiosector is more quality oriented. I'll probably end up buying the Audiosector LM3875 Premium Kit in the future, for what it's worth.
Bottlehead also has a cheap TPA based amp right now, the Quicksand. I actually just pre-ordered one. The only thing about these is that they only supply a few watts, so they might not get loud enough depending on your choice of speaker and how loud you like to listen to music. Also, they're battery powered, so you'll keep having to buy batteries.
If you want a quality amplifier really cheap, a user on this forum, t-head, reports that he uses an amplifier based on the MAX9744 and thinks it sounds better than the t-amps he's tried. Adafruit sells a kit for $20. You'll need a power brick though, and you'll need to solder on a few things.
I personally wouldn't suggest a T-Amp. Pretty much all T-amps are built cheaply with low quality control. Also, they've been outdated to TPA-based amps, with every comparison i've read saying that the TPA based amps sound better. You can get these really cheap from Chinese manufactures, but again, shortcuts have been taken on the amplifier components, and i don't see why anyone would spend their money on poorly implemented designs.
What I would suggest is a gainclone amp kit. It'll give you more than enough power for full-rangers, or even multi-ways if you decide you want to try them in the future. It's also a KISS design, going hand-in-hand with the simplicity philosophy. Chipamp and Audiosector sell kits. Chipamp is more value oriented while Audiosector is more quality oriented. I'll probably end up buying the Audiosector LM3875 Premium Kit in the future, for what it's worth.
Bottlehead also has a cheap TPA based amp right now, the Quicksand. I actually just pre-ordered one. The only thing about these is that they only supply a few watts, so they might not get loud enough depending on your choice of speaker and how loud you like to listen to music. Also, they're battery powered, so you'll keep having to buy batteries.
If you want a quality amplifier really cheap, a user on this forum, t-head, reports that he uses an amplifier based on the MAX9744 and thinks it sounds better than the t-amps he's tried. Adafruit sells a kit for $20. You'll need a power brick though, and you'll need to solder on a few things.
Wow ! a bitstream
I can't understand why the use of digital all along the way. A digital speaker doesn't still exist. At some point, the signal needs to be "formed" as the drive is
audioband signal in AC.
The use of high efficient amplifiers such class d/T is provvidential for portable use ( oh yes, the bluetooth/wifi
) but...Ideally, the I-pod is suited as a a source: it has volume control, contour selection or graphic EQ.
Advanced audiophile users would suggest or stress to use an external DAC unit
Oh no, that's not economic, I guess.
So, how much nowadays costs a stereo amplifier ?
HIfi requires at least 20 W with regular 88-90 dB sensitivity speakers
Note that efficiency in the very low bass tones is rather low
That's why they sell subwoofers
On the contrary, room gain plays a role in augmenting the bass
Schroeder frequency has something to do with it
There are also TDA7492 and TDA7498's that are 50w/100w, respectively for cheap. They sound quite nice - comparable to the TPA3116D2's IMO. More info here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/275505-tda7492-amp.html
I just got my 3rd pair for $6ea - that's how much I like them for fun to dollar ratio, and I have been one of the first TPA3116 users.
$6 TDA7492 (50W capable):
Pair of $11 TDA7498 (100W capable) next to a fake YJ blueblack TPA3116D2. Note that the speaker outs (Right channel) on the 7498 is mislabeled, polarity is flipped, should be +/- not -/+:
But TPA3116D2 is still perhaps the best and a proven quantity at this point. Between the 7492 and 7498, take the 7498 - runs cooler and sounds better with greater dynamic range, definitely one of the supreme deals in a 100W amp at $11ea.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/275505-tda7492-amp.html
I just got my 3rd pair for $6ea - that's how much I like them for fun to dollar ratio, and I have been one of the first TPA3116 users.
$6 TDA7492 (50W capable):
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Pair of $11 TDA7498 (100W capable) next to a fake YJ blueblack TPA3116D2. Note that the speaker outs (Right channel) on the 7498 is mislabeled, polarity is flipped, should be +/- not -/+:
But TPA3116D2 is still perhaps the best and a proven quantity at this point. Between the 7492 and 7498, take the 7498 - runs cooler and sounds better with greater dynamic range, definitely one of the supreme deals in a 100W amp at $11ea.
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Hi,
Though they don't get much good press here take a look at :
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Horns/BLH_Design_Article.pdf
rgds, sreten.
Though they don't get much good press here take a look at :
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Horns/BLH_Design_Article.pdf
rgds, sreten.
T-amps and gainclones are old technology. Avoid them. The current STMicroelectronics TDA and Texas Instruments TPA series amps are much better. Remember that you get what you pay for, so don't shop price alone. I don't do kits, so I look for pre-builds in the $150-200 range. Of course, there will always be the advice to go with space heaters, but talk about old technology!
Bob
Bob
No offense, Bob, but that 'old technology' managed to produce audio gear that has lasted for 30-40 years now (or longer) that, in many cases, still rivals much of the 'newer' gear in sound quality (price for price). I'm not sure you will be able to say the same thing about today's 'disposable' technologies 30-40 years from now.
I personally am not a fan of 'disposable' technologies and try to avoid them when possible and look for something that is actually worth repairing when it falters or fails.
Well thank you guys very much. Lots to chew on.
I guess I should at least reconsider my amp choice. While I like the idea of a prebuilt TPA, the entire point of this excersise is to get my feet wet building the speakers, and also to see just how inexpensively I can build a hi-fidelity system fed by my pod. Yes, I have vinyl, I have cd's and I have reel to reel. But since I have had nothing to play any of those options on, I consolidated the entire collection to my pod(s). I kind of like this mode of music delivery for the time being.
Another note, while I am currently a fan of the frugalhorns, I am open to suggestions for a pair of smallerish, full range driver speakers. I'm still in research and planning mode so nothing but budget is set in stone.
A word about that, while I am more than happy to cut Baltic birch ply and run routers, table saws etc. I have no talent for soldering it seems. If at all possible, I think a prebuilt amp would be preferred, but I suppose if the price vs. Performance ratio was attractive enough, anything is possible.
Thank you so much guys. I am a more info, the merrier type of guy so please feel free to post more ideas. Speakers, amps, "hey Noob, go read more" comments are welcome too....just good to know someone is out there.
I guess I should at least reconsider my amp choice. While I like the idea of a prebuilt TPA, the entire point of this excersise is to get my feet wet building the speakers, and also to see just how inexpensively I can build a hi-fidelity system fed by my pod. Yes, I have vinyl, I have cd's and I have reel to reel. But since I have had nothing to play any of those options on, I consolidated the entire collection to my pod(s). I kind of like this mode of music delivery for the time being.
Another note, while I am currently a fan of the frugalhorns, I am open to suggestions for a pair of smallerish, full range driver speakers. I'm still in research and planning mode so nothing but budget is set in stone.
A word about that, while I am more than happy to cut Baltic birch ply and run routers, table saws etc. I have no talent for soldering it seems. If at all possible, I think a prebuilt amp would be preferred, but I suppose if the price vs. Performance ratio was attractive enough, anything is possible.
Thank you so much guys. I am a more info, the merrier type of guy so please feel free to post more ideas. Speakers, amps, "hey Noob, go read more" comments are welcome too....just good to know someone is out there.
Check out the mini Karlsonator 0.53x scale or 0.49x scale. Fantastic full sounding speakers with a full range driver. The 0.4x is definitely smallish with 60Hz capability and no BSC required. Use 3FE25 driver. For a larger 0.53x scale use dual Vifa TC9FD or a single Dayton PA130-8. Very wide uniform dispersion, great bass trabsient capability, smooth and clear mids for excellent vocals, full non-anemic bass.
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No offense, Bob, but that 'old technology' managed to produce audio gear that has lasted for 30-40 years now (or longer) that, in many cases, still rivals much of the 'newer' gear in sound quality (price for price). I'm not sure you will be able to say the same thing about today's 'disposable' technologies 30-40 years from now.
I personally am not a fan of 'disposable' technologies and try to avoid them when possible and look for something that is actually worth repairing when it falters or fails.
TA202x can still sound very nice. But as they are technically no longer produced, and if in market for a new low cost amp, the huge variety of sub $20 amp boards have to be considered. The TPA311x and TDA749x are low cost and quite amazing sounding devices for the price.
I have to add the TABAQ as an awesome design, easy to build and great sounding.
Mine were stored for a while, ... I took them out today on the balcony, Hooked them up to my TPA3116D2 amp, and watched the sunset to Fleetwood Mac playing from the TABAQs... it was quite the experience.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/88787-tabaq-tl-tang-band.html
Mine were stored for a while, ... I took them out today on the balcony, Hooked them up to my TPA3116D2 amp, and watched the sunset to Fleetwood Mac playing from the TABAQs... it was quite the experience.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/88787-tabaq-tl-tang-band.html
Both rooms are roughly the same size (@ 288 and 280 sq ft)... or is there a typo here?
Btw, what type of music you have in mind?
Guys,
Thank you all so much for the ideas. It has had the added benefit of providing me with more options for research. Exactly what I was hoping for. So now I get to obsess over various "budget minded-inexpensive" enclosure designs and amp choices. Simply awesome of you folks to help point in a direction.
Thank you all so much for the ideas. It has had the added benefit of providing me with more options for research. Exactly what I was hoping for. So now I get to obsess over various "budget minded-inexpensive" enclosure designs and amp choices. Simply awesome of you folks to help point in a direction.
No tupo. Both rooms are of similar size. One, the larger, is my family/listening room. Hardwood floors with large wool rugs, in basement so 7' celings.
That is where the speakers will start life. As I build other speaker/amp combos, this original set up will move to my shop (smaller room). Essentially I want to replace the *cough* Bose Soundock(s) currently in both spaces. I figured that that was an attainable goal with diy audio for sure. Best of all, I can do it on a shoestring.
Maybe I should define my search, or even develop something of a forum challenge.
"Help me design the best souding, least expensive Hi fidelity system"
Moderate to high moderate volume listening style. Rock, classical, and jazz . smaller enclosures welcome. FHMK3 would be as tall and wide as I would like to go, but not set in stone. Full range drivers. Would prefer prebuilt amp, but also not set in stone. IPod is source.
Obviously budget is prime here. Let's call it $200 all in, playing music.
Realistic?
Check one of these out. Uses a TDA7388A (~40W/ CH./Class AB), Tuner, USB/Aux Input, Bluetooth and a remote! Can't beat it for $30..
http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/technical/document/datasheet/CD00179161.pdf
new car radio bluetooth car stereo 12V mp3 player car audio Bluetooth radio SD Card USB Port AUX IN PHONE 1 Din in dash 520-in Car Radios from Automobiles & Motorcycles on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
I use 2 in my home. They Jam!
http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/technical/document/datasheet/CD00179161.pdf
new car radio bluetooth car stereo 12V mp3 player car audio Bluetooth radio SD Card USB Port AUX IN PHONE 1 Din in dash 520-in Car Radios from Automobiles & Motorcycles on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
I use 2 in my home. They Jam!
The audiophiles will prolly hammer me with this but..
These things sound fantastic in the right cabinet. I have 10 waiting to be put together.. (Read my review)
MCM Audio Select 8" Weatherproof Coaxial Speaker w/1" Tweeter | 55-3025 (553025) | MCM Audio Select
These things sound fantastic in the right cabinet. I have 10 waiting to be put together.. (Read my review)
MCM Audio Select 8" Weatherproof Coaxial Speaker w/1" Tweeter | 55-3025 (553025) | MCM Audio Select
While I agree in principal, I am interested in the full range vs. 2way 3way driver set up simply because I want my first exploration into diy audio to have the greatest chance for success. Planning for a setup that does not require crossovers, correctors etc. Seemed like an excellent place to start. Especially if I am at all contemplating a kit amp of any kind. "Some" compromise in fidelity is expected.
I'm just looking for the best combination given the parameters / budget etc. I have to believe that I can get Bose Soundock level fidelity and volume within the limits of full range driver/enclosure/solid state amp type set up.
While I appreciate great fidelity, 25 years of woodworking have taken a toll on my hearing. I'm very much open to any and all full range driver options.
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