X - would you have any relatively compact XKi suggestions for these 15"?
punch and clarity favored over subwoofer extension
Def_Driver 'Peavey SC15Neo' |Notes: PEAVEY BWX SC 15 NEO with 2600 W Peak 1300 W Program 650 W Continuous Power, 1.9mm xmax)
SD=840cm2
fs=51.2Hz
Mms=52.9
Qms=10.604
Qes=0.352
Re=5.32
BL=16.04
Le=0.336mH
Vas=182.4
*******************
Def_Driver 'JBL 2035H' |Notes: JBL 2035H multi-rib cone. 400W, 7.11mm xmax, Eff=4.13%)
SD=880cm2
fs=48Hz
Mms=85
Qms=5
Qes=0.36
Re=3.9
BL=16.6
Le=0.25mH
Vas=140.5
****************************
Def_Driver 'JBL 151-1' |Notes: JBL M151 5.08mm xmax, 300 watt rating musical instrument use, Eff=6.5%)
SD=880cm2
fs=45Hz
Mms=71
Qms=4.8
Qes=0.25
Re=4.8
BL=18.8
Le=0.72mH
Vas=198.2
punch and clarity favored over subwoofer extension
Def_Driver 'Peavey SC15Neo' |Notes: PEAVEY BWX SC 15 NEO with 2600 W Peak 1300 W Program 650 W Continuous Power, 1.9mm xmax)
SD=840cm2
fs=51.2Hz
Mms=52.9
Qms=10.604
Qes=0.352
Re=5.32
BL=16.04
Le=0.336mH
Vas=182.4
*******************
Def_Driver 'JBL 2035H' |Notes: JBL 2035H multi-rib cone. 400W, 7.11mm xmax, Eff=4.13%)
SD=880cm2
fs=48Hz
Mms=85
Qms=5
Qes=0.36
Re=3.9
BL=16.6
Le=0.25mH
Vas=140.5
****************************
Def_Driver 'JBL 151-1' |Notes: JBL M151 5.08mm xmax, 300 watt rating musical instrument use, Eff=6.5%)
SD=880cm2
fs=45Hz
Mms=71
Qms=4.8
Qes=0.25
Re=4.8
BL=18.8
Le=0.72mH
Vas=198.2
Was Metro's T15 speaker's vent at the center of its "stub" as shown in one sketch? - what difference might that make vs the typical XKi means of venting, driving a constant cross-sectional area duct from one end?
the late Gregg Baker's T15 build at first, featured the large rectangular vent shown in Metro's literature, but felt it was tuned too high
so that was blocked and replaced with a round vent tube of smaller area.
Its basically like a squashed K15 with the upper portion of the front cavity folded back to lessen
height for more compact stacking.
xrk971's simulations indicated good performance away from boundaries.
it probably would make a nice home for my 15tbx40 or 15pzb40 B&C
how about an "un-folded" version - more like Karlson's "X15" in size/shape?
the late Gregg Baker's T15 build at first, featured the large rectangular vent shown in Metro's literature, but felt it was tuned too high
so that was blocked and replaced with a round vent tube of smaller area.
Its basically like a squashed K15 with the upper portion of the front cavity folded back to lessen
height for more compact stacking.
xrk971's simulations indicated good performance away from boundaries.
it probably would make a nice home for my 15tbx40 or 15pzb40 B&C
how about an "un-folded" version - more like Karlson's "X15" in size/shape?
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Would you use these plans for this driver(the PRV)? I'm thinking about trying one.
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Hi again!
Well I managed to remove the vertical part of the duct and re-lined the cabinets with the wonderful carpet underlay. The boxes now appear to be behaving as a BR with useful output down to 55Hz. Sadly they still exhibit a boxiness which A) is a shame, and B) I can't standParticularly noticible on percussion, piano and Roy Orbison.
If there is any further experimentation to be had the mids and upper mids are too much as if they are in need of some serious bsc, and suffering from some distortion coming through the cones, which is what I was trying to eliminate when I overdid the stuffing.
I have been experimenting with the double pa130 size. There is something up with it. I sit in front of them like 6 and 8 feet away about head level. I may use the wrong term but there is an intense "beaming" effect in one part of the human voice range. If you go to the side it decreases. It is noticable in the single speaker wood box and a foam .53 box but more pronounced in the double xki box.
I put masking tape over the dust caps, leaving it kind of wrinkly on purpose and that has shown the best improvement so far. Do most people not listen to them at head level? I do weird things and get weird problems all the time. It is a gift.
my single PA130 XKi made of 9mm Baltic birch, has an unpleasant resonance -
the best K's imo so far are the original K15, K12 (K8 "sometimes"), Karlsonator 6 prototype Karlsonator 12. my high aspect K8, the TC9 Karlsonator, my tall K18 (K15 can work with some 18" plus Karlson made a dedicated K18), my Klam 15. Also, Acoustic Control's 115BK and its cousins. The K-tube slotted pipe with compression driver works well.
some little K's are rough - klams tend to be tricky.
a good K - at least beyond a certain size, should need no front chamber damping material.
the best K's imo so far are the original K15, K12 (K8 "sometimes"), Karlsonator 6 prototype Karlsonator 12. my high aspect K8, the TC9 Karlsonator, my tall K18 (K15 can work with some 18" plus Karlson made a dedicated K18), my Klam 15. Also, Acoustic Control's 115BK and its cousins. The K-tube slotted pipe with compression driver works well.
some little K's are rough - klams tend to be tricky.
a good K - at least beyond a certain size, should need no front chamber damping material.
Hmm... I did not notice the beaming you are talking about with mine, maybe the 5.5kHz is bothering you. Although I gave mine the 'Revelator' like treatment and hence all that was softened up. I also made it a coaxial so missing the dustcap and a mylar dome tweeter sits in its place. So basically heavily modified. I gave it a a friend and he uses it as his main system now and says it just blows away all of his other speakers. So he is real happy with it.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/279043-daytonator-pa130-8x.html
But the listening I did prior to surgery and coax mod sounded quite nice too. Try adding some Mr Clean erasor pads to line the front chamber.
Would you use these plans for this driver(the PRV)? I'm thinking about trying one.
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I will have to run a sim - give me a few days - it probably will need quite a different box as that driver has a unique set of parameters. It is more of a mid range than a full range. So not much bass.
xrk, I think it is a lot lower than than 5k. I do at least -5db from 400-1000. But the sound does come from the dust cap and I remembered that you had taken yours out, bypassing the irritating hotspot. Maybe no one else listens to them at head level. But when the post I quoted called the sound "boxy," it made me think maybe one thing with many names.
Can you download REW and take a measurement? Even your built in laptop mic is better than nothing.
Oh cool, thx! So you think not great bass with that driver (PRV)? If that is the case I might go for the Beta 8cx w tweeter instead.
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Ah, I would find building a whole new box more enjoyable than fighting with sound software.
Try Tang Band W5-2143.
Make box 10in deep x 8in wide x 12in tall (all inside dims) with a 8in wide x 0.5in gap vent that is 5.75in long
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Hey X - - what's the approximate tuning of your Beta 8cx XKi? - I've got a K8-sized cabinet with a hacked vent at the top which might be lengthened with cardboard to see how it does with Beta 8cx and 1772
here's the 1955 K8 with 1772 - rear chamber is around a half cubic foot
later on, Karlson "cupped" the front chamber a bit more using an upper panel - don't know if the helped or not. I think a scaled K12 at "K9" size might play well with some 8" FR and a sub.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWnKpr4coPE
here's the 1955 K8 with 1772 - rear chamber is around a half cubic foot
later on, Karlson "cupped" the front chamber a bit more using an upper panel - don't know if the helped or not. I think a scaled K12 at "K9" size might play well with some 8" FR and a sub.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWnKpr4coPE
Hey X
would my JBL medium mass 15s make a punchy (and compact) XKi ? - I still have the B&C - if those are better - it would be nice to have something which could do some deep "bass drops"
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...arlson-6th-order-bandpass-30.html#post4284111
alternately, I'd like to try these JBL in a K-coupler somewhat smaller than K15 - to reach a K-tube.
"X15" had around a one cubic foot front chamber and about 2 cubic foot (after driver displacement) rear chamber, and that pretty much pushed LF cutoff up a half octave. (that would not be noticeable on a lot of the music of its time) - one wants to get the energy out and hopefully minimize coloration so the system sounds better than its direct radiator counterpart. I wish there were already a dedicated simulator to quickly deal with this stuff :^)
X15's bulk was only 1 cubic foot more than the Karlson Twelve. Low frequency cutoff similar vs a 12 - but IIRC, cone movement was further reduced vs a 12" speaker in K12. On drum transients, even a good 10" speaker in K12 appears to barely visibly move. Sustained organ pedal work can eat up excursion. The internal K-tube tweeter sounded "very quick". An "X12" with internal K-tube mounted to the panel above the baffle is a logical spinoff, and could provide the basis (along with a subwoofer) of a potent and compact system.
I'm not sure if X15's front chamber "volume" could be reduced or not or whether it could be improved upon. What do you think?
Def_Driver 'JBL 2035H' |Notes: JBL 2035H multi-rib cone. 400W, 7.11mm xmax, Eff=4.13%)
SD=880cm2
fs=48Hz
Mms=85
Qms=5
Qes=0.36
Re=3.9
BL=16.6
Le=0.25mH
Vas=140.5
would my JBL medium mass 15s make a punchy (and compact) XKi ? - I still have the B&C - if those are better - it would be nice to have something which could do some deep "bass drops"
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...arlson-6th-order-bandpass-30.html#post4284111
alternately, I'd like to try these JBL in a K-coupler somewhat smaller than K15 - to reach a K-tube.
"X15" had around a one cubic foot front chamber and about 2 cubic foot (after driver displacement) rear chamber, and that pretty much pushed LF cutoff up a half octave. (that would not be noticeable on a lot of the music of its time) - one wants to get the energy out and hopefully minimize coloration so the system sounds better than its direct radiator counterpart. I wish there were already a dedicated simulator to quickly deal with this stuff :^)
X15's bulk was only 1 cubic foot more than the Karlson Twelve. Low frequency cutoff similar vs a 12 - but IIRC, cone movement was further reduced vs a 12" speaker in K12. On drum transients, even a good 10" speaker in K12 appears to barely visibly move. Sustained organ pedal work can eat up excursion. The internal K-tube tweeter sounded "very quick". An "X12" with internal K-tube mounted to the panel above the baffle is a logical spinoff, and could provide the basis (along with a subwoofer) of a potent and compact system.
I'm not sure if X15's front chamber "volume" could be reduced or not or whether it could be improved upon. What do you think?
Def_Driver 'JBL 2035H' |Notes: JBL 2035H multi-rib cone. 400W, 7.11mm xmax, Eff=4.13%)
SD=880cm2
fs=48Hz
Mms=85
Qms=5
Qes=0.36
Re=3.9
BL=16.6
Le=0.25mH
Vas=140.5
Last edited:
Would you use these plans for this driver(the PRV)? I'm thinking about trying one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This driver doesn't work in an XKi, but works in a Karlsonator scaled 8/12x height and depth and 9/12x in width.
