from what I've gathered, Karlson's originals all had a vent between their chambers, although lossy as were covered with grill cloth. By vented perhaps a bit of bass could be picked up for some cases with the tradeoff of poorer power handling below cutoff - so active highpass may be useful.
rear chambers are generally kept small and sealed in modern klam with system Qtc kept around 1 or so for good power handling.
Karlson's AP100 aka Jess Oliver's MagnaClam I believe used an Altec 421 augmented by a compression driver from University on K-tube and were installed at Radio City Music Hall.
perhaps venting is useful for some klam
one of Carl's klam12 dims
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/4366/klam12gdob5.jpg
klam 15 with extended coax HF tube on youtube - to get an idea of coloration with no damping tricks in the front chamber
Karlson type klam playing a bit of Nokie Edwards and Adventure "Autumn Leaves" speaker demo - YouTube
in PA use, this klam would be elevated and with slot facing "down/forwards" - when using coax, like direct radiator, the crossover
is important for sound quality. 12LTA augmented by a K-tube tweeter would probably be pretty good in a sealed back chamber klam.
rear chambers are generally kept small and sealed in modern klam with system Qtc kept around 1 or so for good power handling.
Karlson's AP100 aka Jess Oliver's MagnaClam I believe used an Altec 421 augmented by a compression driver from University on K-tube and were installed at Radio City Music Hall.
perhaps venting is useful for some klam
one of Carl's klam12 dims
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/4366/klam12gdob5.jpg
klam 15 with extended coax HF tube on youtube - to get an idea of coloration with no damping tricks in the front chamber
Karlson type klam playing a bit of Nokie Edwards and Adventure "Autumn Leaves" speaker demo - YouTube
in PA use, this klam would be elevated and with slot facing "down/forwards" - when using coax, like direct radiator, the crossover
is important for sound quality. 12LTA augmented by a K-tube tweeter would probably be pretty good in a sealed back chamber klam.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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How about that Monacor 12" driver from the currently active thread?
Thread
I could see smaller Klam's with the various B&C 8" drivers too. 8CX21 is said to have as good a CD to cone WG transition as anything. 8PS21 is basically the woofer-only version. 8NDL51 is not exactly the same, but a close cousin with neo-magnet. 8PE21 has a hell of a strong motor and would be midrange-only, but likely very powerful. 8BG51 is the least sensitive, but will have the most LF extension by far. The woofers are in a FE206En / FF225WK price range and will take much more abuse and you basically pay the DE12 extra for the coax.
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not sure where to source that Monacor with what I presume is a dust screen cemented across its whizzer.
would you say system Q on a sealed rear chamber klam is ~ the analysis of the first input impedance peak so directly measurable via WT3, etc? Carl indicates their back chambers are often very small to produce best result.
would you say system Q on a sealed rear chamber klam is ~ the analysis of the first input impedance peak so directly measurable via WT3, etc? Carl indicates their back chambers are often very small to produce best result.
here's qtc (0.82) of my klam18 nine years ago - its sealed rear chamber IIRC was about 3 cubic feet before driver displacement - It had 1.8lb of common polyfil for the following result:
here's a little klam10 loaded with the first Beta10cx with CD8 compression driver (magnetic field lowers qes a bit)
- there was just a little wad of polyfil in the rear chamber and going by the assumption qtc can be read directly,
then qtc was also around 0.83 or so. More polyfil would probably get qtc down to 0.71 plus reduce reflections
from the back chamber through the cone.
system resonance is high but that's ok as dynamics are decent and good dynamics worth more outdoors than wide response
and unusable dynamic range. IIRC I did short tests up to 60 watts rms looking for distortion
the aperture is wrong on both klam10 - my builder followed the specified radius but a reference must have been off
and the final opening at least 1.5" shy of what it should have been.
at some point we want something like "this" - an extended K-tube can be used from a coax if desired - that will remove
some of the highs from the influence of the front chamber.
here's a little klam10 loaded with the first Beta10cx with CD8 compression driver (magnetic field lowers qes a bit)
- there was just a little wad of polyfil in the rear chamber and going by the assumption qtc can be read directly,
then qtc was also around 0.83 or so. More polyfil would probably get qtc down to 0.71 plus reduce reflections
from the back chamber through the cone.
system resonance is high but that's ok as dynamics are decent and good dynamics worth more outdoors than wide response
and unusable dynamic range. IIRC I did short tests up to 60 watts rms looking for distortion
the aperture is wrong on both klam10 - my builder followed the specified radius but a reference must have been off
and the final opening at least 1.5" shy of what it should have been.
at some point we want something like "this" - an extended K-tube can be used from a coax if desired - that will remove
some of the highs from the influence of the front chamber.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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and here's an indoor graph of a little klam8 loaded with a BetsyK fullrange driver.
one trace is on the nose axis, the other is "under" the klam and on a perpendicular to the 38 degree slanted aperture pane
a klam indoors might be mounted up near or at a ceiling/back wall junction - there is a high enough vertical dispersion pattern imo
to be able to sit almost directly underneath the speaker and have decent intelligibility.
perhaps foam-core is suitable for experiments.
it may appear to do nothing good but in contrast to a direct radiator 8", one little klam sounded like a big rock
concert with pretty strong impacts on drums - it takes good thermal driver capability for that kind of work.
an EP2500 ran my $11 Sammi 8" for those experiments. Maybe some sort of improved diy cooling could be done with a vented
magnet structure.
commercial product
similar build from text dimensions on the old Ulfman discussion forum
Lars Moseholm's report on the little 8 inch klam
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=hug&m=147647&VT=C
one trace is on the nose axis, the other is "under" the klam and on a perpendicular to the 38 degree slanted aperture pane
a klam indoors might be mounted up near or at a ceiling/back wall junction - there is a high enough vertical dispersion pattern imo
to be able to sit almost directly underneath the speaker and have decent intelligibility.
perhaps foam-core is suitable for experiments.
it may appear to do nothing good but in contrast to a direct radiator 8", one little klam sounded like a big rock
concert with pretty strong impacts on drums - it takes good thermal driver capability for that kind of work.
an EP2500 ran my $11 Sammi 8" for those experiments. Maybe some sort of improved diy cooling could be done with a vented
magnet structure.
commercial product
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
similar build from text dimensions on the old Ulfman discussion forum
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Lars Moseholm's report on the little 8 inch klam
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=hug&m=147647&VT=C
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how did Faeber get good response with an extended K-tube? - need to find a section which I slotted, and test to see effects with varying
slot length for an overall length like his products.
Eminence's inexpensive beta cx can be converted to "koax" by removing their dustscreen, beveling the K-tube pipe to fit and cementing the extended K-tube into the HF exit - perhaps some body putty to smooth the transition.
tonality of the klam is altered by piping the highs out near the main aperture vs letting them rattle around inside te front chamber -
the K-tube exit will give a usable 120 degree horizontal pattern in most of the treble.
koaxial - freddyi - High Efficiency Speaker Asylum
https://www.google.je/patents/DE102...a=X&ei=HxTIU5-nK8ivyAT7o4KYBg&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAA
slot length for an overall length like his products.
Eminence's inexpensive beta cx can be converted to "koax" by removing their dustscreen, beveling the K-tube pipe to fit and cementing the extended K-tube into the HF exit - perhaps some body putty to smooth the transition.
tonality of the klam is altered by piping the highs out near the main aperture vs letting them rattle around inside te front chamber -
the K-tube exit will give a usable 120 degree horizontal pattern in most of the treble.
koaxial - freddyi - High Efficiency Speaker Asylum
https://www.google.je/patents/DE102...a=X&ei=HxTIU5-nK8ivyAT7o4KYBg&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAA
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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thejessman is handling the build and it looks great even without any finish- btw - this is sealed rear chamber - click to see the image in correct aspect
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
got the klam , loaded it with an old Eminence C12CX coax, PRV280ti compression driver and generic EM 3K5 network (more like 2K8) - - C12CX has a 2.5" diameter coil, 80oz magnet slug and ~70Hz resonance. system resonance is ~100Hz, qtc around 0.78 with a small bonded Dacron pad, raised to ~0.84 by the xover's small gauge lowpass inductor.
compared the klam with the coax to my fake Druid loaded with BG20 using a very nice CD of soprano singing with harp - the klam is at least 10db louder, much clearer and more realistic than the direct radiator MLTL pipe/FR.
here it is before leaving TheJessMan's joint - just because a speaker has a snout, don't assume it can't play dynamically and accurately
it is limited on the low end extension-wise but a really good woofer could help 12LTA should have similar sensitivity to C12CX but a helper tweeter scheme would have to be made (a coaxial extended K-tube with say, ASD1001 would make sense)
the original Karlson and Karlson-Oliver asymmetric projectors were intended for vocal reinforcement
the aperture starts at around 1/2" and after 21.5" travel, reaches a final width of 13" - the back chamber is a bit under 1 cubic foot before loading the driver. Its pretty heavy being made of Baltic birch and being loaded with ~20lb of speaker.
compared the klam with the coax to my fake Druid loaded with BG20 using a very nice CD of soprano singing with harp - the klam is at least 10db louder, much clearer and more realistic than the direct radiator MLTL pipe/FR.
here it is before leaving TheJessMan's joint - just because a speaker has a snout, don't assume it can't play dynamically and accurately
it is limited on the low end extension-wise but a really good woofer could help 12LTA should have similar sensitivity to C12CX but a helper tweeter scheme would have to be made (a coaxial extended K-tube with say, ASD1001 would make sense)
the original Karlson and Karlson-Oliver asymmetric projectors were intended for vocal reinforcement
the aperture starts at around 1/2" and after 21.5" travel, reaches a final width of 13" - the back chamber is a bit under 1 cubic foot before loading the driver. Its pretty heavy being made of Baltic birch and being loaded with ~20lb of speaker.
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he didn't have the drivers-it should go lower than 150 - I've some sort of bug but may at least do a response measurement.
Here's the extension outdoors of a little Klam10 with the original stronger motor B102 - rear chamber around 1/2 cubic foot IIRC - the aperture came out way too tight and wings aren't removable
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/237948-speaker-kicks-butt-large-spaces-32.html#post3623582
Here's the extension outdoors of a little Klam10 with the original stronger motor B102 - rear chamber around 1/2 cubic foot IIRC - the aperture came out way too tight and wings aren't removable
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/237948-speaker-kicks-butt-large-spaces-32.html#post3623582
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How nuts is this one?
So I have a pair of 6FE100, as well as APT80, sitting on shelves. The 6FE100 didn't pan out for a BVR I wanted to build, as their suspension is really stiff - even after a solid LF and noise beat-down - yielding higher Fs and Qt than published. A sealed box is the only sane option if I'm to keep things small-ish.
I could use this to play some tunes in mono in my garage and take it outside if I need during the summer to entertain. ~15L of sealed rear chamber makes for Qtc a bit above 1.0 with f3~90Hz / f10~65Hz, 1.5dB hump at 160Hz. Due to the stiff suspension of my units, this box could eat-up 64W of power before exceeding Xmax at any frequency, by which time we're dealing with ~110dB of output above 100Hz - more than enough to ****-off neighbours as the lots are quite small around me.
The whole thing would be 30" long, 13.5" wide and 9" high. The Klam section is 16" long from above (projected K-slot view) , or 21" from the driver mounting "V". Baffle slant is ~24°, shallower than most Klams. I'd expect for it to tune around 170Hz-190Hz if my usual technique applies. The added BP4 action and high Qtc will most likely negate step-loss. The 6FE100 has on-axis response to ~5kHz if the data sheet is to be believed. I'm hoping the K-slot and driver placement (eventual HF interference) will allow to run them wide-open. Depending on how things actually turn out, the APT50 driver on K-Tube will likely be crossed-over anywhere between 3kHz and 6kHz. APT50 should hopefully keep-up SPL-wise, as the dual 6FE100 will get a sensitivity boost from running parallel at 4ohm. I've never used a K-tube on them. I could always use a PVC Y-coupler to use both driver on the one tube.
The draft shows 0.5" ply, perhaps better move-up to 0.75" though.
I've half a mind to build this thing and put the unused drivers to work.
So I have a pair of 6FE100, as well as APT80, sitting on shelves. The 6FE100 didn't pan out for a BVR I wanted to build, as their suspension is really stiff - even after a solid LF and noise beat-down - yielding higher Fs and Qt than published. A sealed box is the only sane option if I'm to keep things small-ish.
I could use this to play some tunes in mono in my garage and take it outside if I need during the summer to entertain. ~15L of sealed rear chamber makes for Qtc a bit above 1.0 with f3~90Hz / f10~65Hz, 1.5dB hump at 160Hz. Due to the stiff suspension of my units, this box could eat-up 64W of power before exceeding Xmax at any frequency, by which time we're dealing with ~110dB of output above 100Hz - more than enough to ****-off neighbours as the lots are quite small around me.
The whole thing would be 30" long, 13.5" wide and 9" high. The Klam section is 16" long from above (projected K-slot view) , or 21" from the driver mounting "V". Baffle slant is ~24°, shallower than most Klams. I'd expect for it to tune around 170Hz-190Hz if my usual technique applies. The added BP4 action and high Qtc will most likely negate step-loss. The 6FE100 has on-axis response to ~5kHz if the data sheet is to be believed. I'm hoping the K-slot and driver placement (eventual HF interference) will allow to run them wide-open. Depending on how things actually turn out, the APT50 driver on K-Tube will likely be crossed-over anywhere between 3kHz and 6kHz. APT50 should hopefully keep-up SPL-wise, as the dual 6FE100 will get a sensitivity boost from running parallel at 4ohm. I've never used a K-tube on them. I could always use a PVC Y-coupler to use both driver on the one tube.
The draft shows 0.5" ply, perhaps better move-up to 0.75" though.
I've half a mind to build this thing and put the unused drivers to work.
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I don't much like the looks of anything vented for this driver and the specs I measured. The smallest reflex I was willing to accept was ~25L for a single driver, but would need to double-up. BP4 will have all the needed mid-upper bass gain IMO but yeah, extension isn't the greatest, but I'm willing to give it a shot still. Also an excuse as I've never tried a Klam before.
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