Wharfedale SFB sizes anyone? - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd February 2014, 02:14 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New Zealand
Default Wharfedale SFB sizes anyone?

As of late I've become interested in OB. And I am not talking about those narrow high OB's that have the woofer dialled in through some large inductor with all kinds of additional filtering.

The Wharfedale Sand Filled Baffle had one 10" and one 12" Fullrange driver parallel connected with optional a tweeter through a 4 uF capacitor.

I've found the overall dimensions but I want to know the exact location of the 10" and 12" drivers and hopefully someone who has one of these open baffles will be so kind to measure it up and post it here.

A bonus would be to get the size of the handgrips on the sides.

Thank you in advance! AM
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd February 2014, 07:15 AM   #2
DrBoar is offline DrBoar  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
DrBoar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Stockholm
OBL11
has info and links to other sites as well with various info on both the original SFB and projects of building current interpretations of the design.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd February 2014, 09:09 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New Zealand
Thank you, I was already aware of the OBL7, 9 and 11 but that website does not give me the information on the exact location on the 10" and 12" drivers.

Briggs believed he could achieve the results of the ESL 57 with normal drivers and experimented for months with different configurations ranging from a single driver to 6 drivers. He also warns against using elaborate crossovers.

I've also found a website which appears to have a chapter from a book in which Briggs describes a DIY version. JE Labs Arkiv: G. A. Briggs - Open Baffle. However I like to mimic his original version instead although so far I have been unable to find out much more about the drivers used.

There is also a source that ranks the SFB more or less on par with the Quad ESL57. Innerworld Audio - Whaferdale SFB3

I regard the SFB as a "poor man's ESL 57" and since ESL is outside my financial reach I want to make a SFB clone.

Last edited by AmadeusMozart; 3rd February 2014 at 09:16 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2014, 10:31 PM   #4
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
excerpt from the Innerworld Audio article:
Quote:
SFB/3 is an open back 3-way system comprising a W12SFB 12” paper cone woofer, a 10” Bronze CSB paper cone midrange mounted close to one another and wired in parallel to improve “…mutual radiation impedance”. A Super 3 3” tweeter is mounted on its own baffle to the rear firing upwards and fed via a 4uf capacitor. Frequency response is quoted as 20 Hz - 20 kHz with the bass resonance as low as 30 - 35cps. All drivers have nominal 15 ohm impedance, plastic foam surrounds, no spiders, and Alnico magnets to control cone excursion.
Note that Briggs intended these 3 drive units to work only in the SFB/3 and only sold them as a complete system. Neither the units nor the cabinet were “useable” separately. The open baffle concept discussed in his writings was for DIY experimentation with ‘other‘ drivers.
I found this slightly amusing as well:

Quote:
Briggs made only limited commercial success out of the SFB/3. Walker used the SFB/3 to make good commercial success out of the original ESL 57.

In 1956 the SFB/3 was 37.10.0 complete, rising to 39.10.0 in 1957, which should be compared to the Quad ESL 57 costing 52 around the same time. What should also be remembered is that Briggs, by design, marketed these speakers for their magnificent ‘stereo’ performance when bought in pairs - surely among the first!
From my reading of the entire article, I don't think the 3" upfiring tweeter could be described as "optional" - and a faithful homage to the original design would depend on drivers with similar performance to the very limited production units described of over 50yrs vintage.


There are no doubt numerous DIY versions of this concept - JE Labs goes into some length here:

http://jelabsarch.blogspot.ca/2012/0...le.htmlhttp://

Frankly, something like the OBL11 project seems more practical in terms of using contemporary drivers to achieve similar results
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi

Last edited by chrisb; 4th February 2014 at 10:34 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2014, 12:54 AM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Willamette Valley
I'll be watching this as I happen to own the drivers, that is if the W70 has essentially the same stuff. Definitely a Super 3. I struggle to see vintage bass drivers succeeding in an open baffle given their minimal x max and thermal limitations.
I think it's a W70. The surrounds are green felt and the cones are dated l964. Thrift store, 40 bucks. Now there's a pair of EV Royal 400s, similar vintage. 18" bass, 8" mid, horn tweet. Sounds better than it should, stock, except for the buzzing enclosure; $45. Need to get my Eico Stereo 70 running.

Last edited by phivates; 5th February 2014 at 12:59 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2014, 02:57 AM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
devilsindetails's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 100th Meridian
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmadeusMozart View Post
SNIP...Briggs believed he could achieve the results of the ESL 57 with normal drivers and experimented for months with different configurations ranging from a single driver to 6 drivers. He also warns against using elaborate crossovers.

I've also found a website which appears to have a chapter from a book in which Briggs describes a DIY version. JE Labs Arkiv: G. A. Briggs - Open Baffle. However I like to mimic his original version instead although so far I have been unable to find out much more about the drivers used.

There is also a source that ranks the SFB more or less on par with the Quad ESL57. Innerworld Audio - Whaferdale SFB3

I regard the SFB as a "poor man's ESL 57" and since ESL is outside my financial reach I want to make a SFB clone.

I have worked on three sets of the SFB/3s in the past decade with one pair remaining and currently on loan to a close friend...who's been unwilling to return them despite already owning a set of Tannoy Monitor Gold 12s and a set of the ESL57s.

I will try and get you measurements as soon as I can.

You are aware that the two main drivers 12" and 10" drivers for the SFB3s were specific to this unit and employed longer throw voice coils? I've had a chance to measure them against what some misguided souls have tried to substitute other Wharfedale 12" and 10" drivers for defective SFB/3 units.

Additionally Briggs' use of a SFB baffle contributes, in no small measure, to their superb performance.

Alas, GB, often seemed to get distracted with new, and mostly inferior, designs and the SFB3 design was relegated to relative obscurity while clearly inferior products such as the W60/70/90 and others marked the d-evolution of subsequent Wharfedale offerings.

The ESL57 was, is, a remarkable loudspeaker particularly its airy HF and MF reproduction, but it had/has a few significant weaknesses...weak LF response, narrow sound-stage and the need for its own on-board power supply.

The beauty of the SFB/3 was, and is, it's x/over simplicity, high sensitivity, wide sound-stage, and excellent LF response and it comes within a breath of rivaling the ESL57s in HF and MF response and for my money a better overall loudspeaker for a wider range of music.
__________________
"A problem left to itself dries up or goes rotten. But fertilize a problem with a solution--you'll hatch out dozens." (N.F.Simpson)
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2014, 02:59 AM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
devilsindetails's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 100th Meridian
Quote:
Originally Posted by phivates View Post
I'll be watching this as I happen to own the drivers, that is if the W70 has essentially the same stuff. Definitely a Super 3. I struggle to see vintage bass drivers succeeding in an open baffle given their minimal x max and thermal limitations.
I think it's a W70. The surrounds are green felt and the cones are dated l964. Thrift store, 40 bucks. Now there's a pair of EV Royal 400s, similar vintage. 18" bass, 8" mid, horn tweet. Sounds better than it should, stock, except for the buzzing enclosure; $45. Need to get my Eico Stereo 70 running.
The W70 drivers are nothing like those found in the W70s, 90s..even the Super 3 was a special design for the SFB/3.
__________________
"A problem left to itself dries up or goes rotten. But fertilize a problem with a solution--you'll hatch out dozens." (N.F.Simpson)
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2014, 05:20 AM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
devilsindetails's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 100th Meridian
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilsindetails View Post
The W70 drivers are nothing like those found in the W70s, 90s..even the Super 3 was a special design for the SFB/3.
Sorry...should read, "The SFB/3 drivers are nothing like...."
__________________
"A problem left to itself dries up or goes rotten. But fertilize a problem with a solution--you'll hatch out dozens." (N.F.Simpson)
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2014, 05:34 AM   #9
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
Careful - some '57 fanboys (myself not included) might take umbrage at "significant weaknesses" Oh, did we forget to mention room placement issues, and limited dynamics / SPL in stock trim?

I personally reached the same conclusion when I owned a pair in the early 70s, but that was driven by the 33/303 - a not inexpensive combination perhaps not Quad's highwater mark.

clearly that qualifies me as a pariah - but WTF do I care ?

There are many who consider properly updated / modified / rebuilt 57s, particularly multiple stacked pairs thereof, to be "pretty darned special" - and certainly there are more of them still roadworthy than other competent but under appreciated systems of that era - SFBs among that count.
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi

Last edited by chrisb; 5th February 2014 at 05:37 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2014, 03:59 PM   #10
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Virginia
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmadeusMozart View Post
Thank you, I was already aware of the OBL7, 9 and 11 but that website does not give me the information on the exact location on the 10" and 12" drivers.

Assuming the drawing of the OB11 is to-scale (which I think it is, using a ruler, you can extract the dimensions quite accurately for purposes of building an OB). But really this was designed for the custom JA 8 inch driver and JA waveguide with Audax tweeter - if you go that route I am sure TG will throw in the baffle dimensions for free.

Click the image to open in full size.

Btw, TG did a fantastic job with the selection of drivers and XO as usual. I am sure it sounds great but take a look at the cost of those XO components and I say you are way better off to get a DSP and mutliple class D amps. You will have some hope of getting the XO and the integration correct. My 2 cents...

Last edited by xrk971; 5th February 2014 at 04:01 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Drill sizes for tapping Lo_Tse Equipment & Tools 7 5th November 2013 12:06 AM
Updated Wharfedale SFB Racket Scientist Full Range 8 20th March 2012 01:55 AM
Turntable spindle sizes Alter Ego Analogue Source 6 19th April 2009 03:18 AM
Sizes of ESLs JoeBob Planars & Exotics 1 1st June 2004 05:14 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:47 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2