It looks like it works pretty well in Karlsonator scaled 0.53x in Height and Depth and 0.47x in Width.
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FaitalPro 3FE22 build and sound
Reporting back on Skylar88’s Karlsonators - 0.53X build with dual FaitalPro 3FE22 drivers. Build plans here: Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
We had a good listening and comparing session on Friday. Playing mostly FLAC files from a laptop using a Sabre ES9023 USB DAC, B1 Buffer and a TDA7297 amp. A single powered sub was occasionally pulled in for experimenting. The mini Karlsonators were compared to Tannoy monitors of similar (physical) size.
How do the Karlsonators sound? Amazing. Just the initial presence they create is jaw dropping. They do fill the room with sound. And they can play very very loud without a hint of struggling or loosing control. They really sparkle in the high frequencies and the midrange is very natural. Details are incredible. Vocals are beautiful and accurate.
How do they compare to the Tannoys? The Tannoys also sound very very good with the TDA amp, and definitely dominates in the bass and mid bass areas. But the Tannoys do not have the same sparkle as the Karlsonators and sounds slightly muffled or darker. Could it be the difference between wood and foam core we experienced? The Karlsonators have more life and detail, and even the bass is incredibly deep and tight, but could do with a bit of help. Combining the Karlsonators with a sub-woofer really creates something special. Which means these Karlsonators will really shine in a FAST setup I think.
Skylar is very happy with his first diy speakers. Here are some photos of his build. He used Liteply (3mm quality plywood used in model aircraft) for the front baffle.
Reporting back on Skylar88’s Karlsonators - 0.53X build with dual FaitalPro 3FE22 drivers. Build plans here: Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
We had a good listening and comparing session on Friday. Playing mostly FLAC files from a laptop using a Sabre ES9023 USB DAC, B1 Buffer and a TDA7297 amp. A single powered sub was occasionally pulled in for experimenting. The mini Karlsonators were compared to Tannoy monitors of similar (physical) size.
How do the Karlsonators sound? Amazing. Just the initial presence they create is jaw dropping. They do fill the room with sound. And they can play very very loud without a hint of struggling or loosing control. They really sparkle in the high frequencies and the midrange is very natural. Details are incredible. Vocals are beautiful and accurate.
How do they compare to the Tannoys? The Tannoys also sound very very good with the TDA amp, and definitely dominates in the bass and mid bass areas. But the Tannoys do not have the same sparkle as the Karlsonators and sounds slightly muffled or darker. Could it be the difference between wood and foam core we experienced? The Karlsonators have more life and detail, and even the bass is incredibly deep and tight, but could do with a bit of help. Combining the Karlsonators with a sub-woofer really creates something special. Which means these Karlsonators will really shine in a FAST setup I think.
Skylar is very happy with his first diy speakers. Here are some photos of his build. He used Liteply (3mm quality plywood used in model aircraft) for the front baffle.
Attachments
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Cannot seem to get my pictures inserted, so I edited the post and attached them. 😡
Regarding speaker height. I read somewhere (probably on this thread) that the Karlsonators are supposed to stand on the floor. However, after experimenting with the height, both Skylar and myself prefer the Karlsonators at ear level. The sound stage, imaging and even bass is better at this height. You can see our make-shift stands in the photo above.
Thanks for the report of our listening session, Jerry. Your description of the sound of the Karsonators is very accurate and ecactly what I also experienced. To say that I'm 'very happy' is an understatement.
The drivers used is actually dual FaitalPro 3FE25-16 Ohm (ferrite magnet) connected in parallel for effectively 8 Ohm. I had to make a call when ordering the drivers and in hindsight, I think the 16 Ohm version was the right choice.
I want to point out that it was originally my intention to use 12mm MDF, but with the uncertainty about whether wood enclosures sound as good as the foam board variants, I decided to use foam core board. A decision I don't regret when I listen to them. But I may build 3mm Liteply enclosures to compare, because I think I may want more professionally looking speakers eventually.
Link to my ACA speaker short-list thread which lead to building the 0.53 Karlsonators: ACA Speaker short list
Christo
Nicely done! The cabinet dimensions seem slightly larger than the original 0.53X plans for the dual TC9's, is that right? I'm surprised about the bass response. On my 0.41X with a single TC9FD the bass is dominant. And they do sound good on the floor or a table (computer). As soon as I get snowed in it'll be time to build the 0.53 with dual drivers 🙂
Yes, on my published plan the dimensions have been increased to accommodate the extra thickness of the wood - in order to keep the same internal volume as it is with foam board. But when I decided to build with foam, I used the smaller dimensions.
I think the bass only seems lacking because the mids and highs are superior for this enclosure size with the excellent FaitalPro drivers. The way I understand it, bass is a function of cabinet size. Make no mistake, there is bass, but it's only when you add in a sub that you realize that bass could have been better.
I can recommend dual 16 Ohm Faitals if you're considering building 0.53 K's. I have listened to 0.40 K's with single 3.5" drivers and the 0.53 with dual Faitals is definitely in another class. Btw, as was pointed out by XRK, the Ferrite FaitalPros have more bass and that's why I chose it.
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thanks for all the answers. I have four TC9FD's on hand already so will use them in my 0.53X build. I've never heard a speaker that doesn't sound better with a sub added. But I use my 0.41x MK's at the computer w/o a sub half the time and don't feel like I'm missing anything. Depends on the time of day how loud they sound! Sometimes they are huge with the volume control on 25%; sometimes I have to go 60% for full sound. And on rare occasions the full 100%.
Well then your mind is made up. Pity, as I was hoping someone else would also test the Faitals and confirm that they sound great.
I have a feeling the reason for the great sound is the 16 Ohm impedance /2. AFAIK the TC9FD's are 8 Ohm so you'll have 4 Ohm speakers.
Thanks for the detailed report out. Wonderful news and happy that the dual 3FE25 16ohms was the right answer. They are basically 97dB sensitive 8ohm speakers so perfect for fleawatt SET amps.
Nicely done guys!
Would 4FE35's provide better bass balance, is the .53 ratio correct for the larger driver?
Thanks.
Gary
Thanks.
Gary
Dual Faital Pro 4FE35-8 design
Surprisingly only a bit bigger. Make it 0.60x scale in height and depth and 0.47x scale in width for qnty 2 x 4FE35 (8ohms) drivers wired in parallel. I cannot recommend the 16ohm in this case as Qts is totally different at 1.06. F3 is about 45Hz with this design and the aspect ratio looks a bit taller to give extended bass and to allow enough room to fit the two bigger drivers.
Should work really well, model looks excellent.
Surprisingly only a bit bigger. Make it 0.60x scale in height and depth and 0.47x scale in width for qnty 2 x 4FE35 (8ohms) drivers wired in parallel. I cannot recommend the 16ohm in this case as Qts is totally different at 1.06. F3 is about 45Hz with this design and the aspect ratio looks a bit taller to give extended bass and to allow enough room to fit the two bigger drivers.
Should work really well, model looks excellent.
I just saw this Cyber Monday deal for $5ea. It appears to be a very low profile dome tweeter that you can cut a small round hole in the wing of a K aperture and insert. Add a 10uF cap and maybe 4ohm padding resistor and wire in parallel with your favorite full range driver like TC9FD or maybe use without padding for 3FE25. Great deal for a super tweeter though.
Dayton Audio ND16FA-6 5/8" Soft Dome Neodymium Tweeter
Dayton Audio ND16FA-6 5/8" Soft Dome Neodymium Tweeter
I wouldn't dream of adding a tweeter to my dual 3FE25 0.53 K's. There is enough tweeting. In fact, the super high frequencies overshadow the mids and lows.
That's a good price on the tweeter, though. But it's not the prices at Parts Express that kill it for me, it's the shipping to my location!
That's a good price on the tweeter, though. But it's not the prices at Parts Express that kill it for me, it's the shipping to my location!
Hi Skylar,
Agreed that shipping anything to SA is a pain. I have lost several amplifier shipments to SA and seems only couriers like DHL are reliable means to get anything valuable delivered there.
If highs are too much for you, perhaps try a mild baffle step correction? Use maybe 0.8mH to 1.0mH inductor and 3.3ohm or 4.7ohm (5w) in parallel between the amp and the driver +ve terminal. That might balance the sound a bit more. Adjust the resistor to taste.
Agreed that shipping anything to SA is a pain. I have lost several amplifier shipments to SA and seems only couriers like DHL are reliable means to get anything valuable delivered there.
If highs are too much for you, perhaps try a mild baffle step correction? Use maybe 0.8mH to 1.0mH inductor and 3.3ohm or 4.7ohm (5w) in parallel between the amp and the driver +ve terminal. That might balance the sound a bit more. Adjust the resistor to taste.