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Old 19th July 2013, 06:25 PM   #271
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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re: large Advent = it must be at least 13dB less than the little Karlson - -Henry Kloss' stuff was always respectable - I had KLH6 40+ years ago and presently have KLH17 - my TSG 109oz magnet coax in a K12 with B52 polymide compression driver is noticeably less loud than the 12pe32/K-tube combo. I think the Martin 1114 (also Eminence) coax with 80oz magnet might be in-between. 12LTA is plenty loud but lacks dynamics due to weak motor. 12LTA augmented with a K-tube and cheap but cheerful compression driver such as ASD1001S or PRV 280 could make a nice fullrange/Karlson project - 12LTA might work well in Greg B's Karlsonator12 - or a "K13" (13/15 scale K15) -- 12LTA in the standard 6-slit vent K12 did well with Tomservo's Harley track - AN10 in reflex could not deal with the dynamics. (I've got a 1200 but due to chronic vertigo can't ride..)

Last edited by freddi; 19th July 2013 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 19th July 2013, 07:23 PM   #272
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
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One nice thing about making the Karlsonator with the dual (or maybe 4 or 9 drivers) 3 inch or 3.5 in full range drivers is that they have the built-in property of having a good high end (solid performance to 20 kHz) so no tweeter or compression driver is needed to hear the full spectrum. I may be looking at making a quad driver Karlsonator - the 2 driver one already sounds great, I can only imagine how much better it can sound with 4.
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Old 20th July 2013, 04:31 AM   #273
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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I think Parts Express has a projected arrival date for the return of the little Vifa around 8-29-13
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Old 20th July 2013, 10:00 AM   #274
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
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I did not know they were even out of stock. Popular little things, maybe a bunch of orders have been placed for making the Karlsonator?
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Old 22nd July 2013, 01:39 PM   #275
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
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In case you have not seen this in the Karsonator thread, here are some directivity measurements and they show why the Karlson sounds good in a large space - very uniform directivity up to about 3 kHz (for vocals) and a 100 to 120 deg wide cone that is lobe-free.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 28th July 2013, 12:11 AM   #276
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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"bump" - hope this is sinking in to some potential readers
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Old 28th July 2013, 08:13 PM   #277
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Hi Freddyi
Your right, people don’t appreciate that part of what we hear is how the spoear radiates. A constant directivty source is one thing that not only allows a speaker to sound the same over a range of locations but also what can allow it to have the same effect over a large range of distances. If one has a radiation with a “Q”, that lobe can be used to taper the SPL so that the inverse square law can be “cheated” producing a near constant spl vs distance as well,

I was at an installation last week that illustrates this is a very large space. Pop on some headphones and try a couple of these of a large scale hifi that can hit 105dB A at 800 feet at the farthest seat, has a -2dB at 28Hz but is only about 6dB louder on the bottom end under the scoreboard where the system is

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nmmmdtum82lyig9/QnEaYWlnDE

LSU's Tiger Stadium - YouTube

Best Regards, take care.
Tom Danley
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Old 1st August 2013, 08:59 PM   #278
BHTX is offline BHTX  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrk971 View Post
here are some directivity measurements and they show why the Karlson sounds good in a large space - very uniform directivity up to about 3 kHz (for vocals) and a 100 to 120 deg wide cone that is lobe-free[/IMG]
What happened to the image?
Guess I missed out.

Also, can someone show me an excursion plot? ..something like how WinISD shows the excursion for sealed/ported/bandpass systems. I'm currently under the assumption that it would be similar to a bandpass, is this correct?

Edit: I see the image now. Thanks for posting.

Edit again: My current thoughts for a "kick butt" outdoor system. Karlson with either Delta Pro-15A or Kappa Pro-15A, underneath an SEOS-24 with 1.4" CD, sitting on top of an 18" tapped horn per side, tri-amped and actively crossed around 60 Hz and 500 Hz or so. Hmmmm...

http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Delta_Pro_15A.pdf
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappa_Pro_15A.pdf
http://prodance.cz/protokoly/eminence_delta_pro_15.pdf
http://prodance.cz/protokoly/eminence_kappa_pro-15a.pdf
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic...os/seos24.html

Last edited by BHTX; 1st August 2013 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 2nd August 2013, 01:08 AM   #279
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHTX View Post
What happened to the image?
Guess I missed out.

Also, can someone show me an excursion plot? ..something like how WinISD shows the excursion for sealed/ported/bandpass systems. I'm currently under the assumption that it would be similar to a bandpass, is this correct?

Edit: I see the image now. Thanks for posting.

Edit again: My current thoughts for a "kick butt" outdoor system. Karlson with either Delta Pro-15A or Kappa Pro-15A, underneath an SEOS-24 with 1.4" CD, sitting on top of an 18" tapped horn per side, tri-amped and actively crossed around 60 Hz and 500 Hz or so. Hmmmm...

http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Delta_Pro_15A.pdf
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappa_Pro_15A.pdf
http://prodance.cz/protokoly/eminence_delta_pro_15.pdf
http://prodance.cz/protokoly/eminence_kappa_pro-15a.pdf
Fiberglass SEOS-24? - SEOS? - Fiberglass - The SEOS? Waveguides DIY Sound Group
I have sim'd the Kappa 15A but not delta. I will post sims as soon as I have some time. One very nice feature about the K15 is that there is very little cone movement so that you really have a very high SPL system that won't be as limited by xmax like other alignments. It's interesting but in some cases the smaller Beta 10cx outperforms the larger 12 and 15 Kappas in a K15. A tapped horn sub might be a good idea as the K15 doesnt have much below 50 Hz.
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Old 2nd August 2013, 02:22 AM   #280
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
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Default K15 with Delta Pro 15A

Here is the simulation of the Eminence Delta Pro 15A. First plot is freq response at 1m, second is impedance, third is driver cone displacement (note how small movement is). Fourth plot is freq response at 5m. These are all for speaker placed 60 in away from a back wall with 1 watt input. This particular driver does not have a nice flat bass shelf that some of the drivers like the Betsy or Beta 10CX. The efficiency is just astounding though: 95 dB at 80 Hz with 1 watt at 5 meters! Fifth plot is the freq response 10 meters away with 250 watts power (114 dB at 80 Hz). Sixth plot is the cone displacement with 250 watts input, still within mechanical excursion limit if a high-pass at 40 Hz is used to protect driver. Definitely a speaker that kicks butt at 10 meters.
Attached Images
File Type: png K15-DeltaPro15A-Freq-1m.png (28.1 KB, 205 views)
File Type: png K15-DeltaPro15A-Freq-Impedance.png (23.1 KB, 204 views)
File Type: png K15-DeltaPro15A-Freq-Displ.png (23.8 KB, 201 views)
File Type: png K15-DeltaPro15A-Freq-5m.png (27.5 KB, 201 views)
File Type: png K15-DeltaPro15A-Freq-250watts-10m.png (27.8 KB, 29 views)
File Type: png K15-DeltaPro15A-Freq-Displ-250watts.png (23.6 KB, 23 views)
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