impressive and encouraging - - do you have any tweeters appropriate for K-tube duty?- is there a ferrite version of that driver? - (it looks pretty strong) - alternately a piezo tweeter could make a nice helper and tend to sound "faster" than titanium.
I have one fairly tough 8" speaker used as a midrange - Eminence's Delta Pro8A - rated high in sensitivity but its outdistanced in sensitivity by L. Cao's little F6 fullrange.
remember the BC 10FW64 which was too strong for the Karlsonator - perhaps its ok for a scaled K10 http://www.bcspeakers.com/products/lf-driver/10-0/10fw64
I have one fairly tough 8" speaker used as a midrange - Eminence's Delta Pro8A - rated high in sensitivity but its outdistanced in sensitivity by L. Cao's little F6 fullrange.
remember the BC 10FW64 which was too strong for the Karlsonator - perhaps its ok for a scaled K10 http://www.bcspeakers.com/products/lf-driver/10-0/10fw64
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could kick myself - this bargain sold out Faital Pro 10 Inch 300W 4 Ohm Mid Range / Mid Bass Speaker | 10PR300C | Faital Pro
That Faital Pro is a nice driver, and a cast frame Nd motor for that price is a good deal. However, it's not like you are short on drivers 
I do have some old piezo tweeters - an interesting Radio Shack patented variant with a complex motor and sculpted radiator surface.
I don't have any K-tubeable tweeters...
I do have some old piezo tweeters - an interesting Radio Shack patented variant with a complex motor and sculpted radiator surface.
I don't have any K-tubeable tweeters...
audio comes before shoes, clothes and comfort - will git my woodchopper to kobble a pair of little K10 soon - as much as I like good front loaded horn, K will take precedence as can sound as good or better than midbass horn in a much smaller package.
although 1/2" Baltic birch is reasonably stiff, the little K's might use 5/8" BB and perhaps cut down a bit on bracing. ~120-dB peak capability is a good goal for a tiny cabinet.
- will git my woodchopper to kobble a pair of little K10 soon - as much as I like good front loaded horn, K will take precedence as can sound as good or better than midbass horn in a much smaller package.although 1/2" Baltic birch is reasonably stiff, the little K's might use 5/8" BB and perhaps cut down a bit on bracing. ~120-dB peak capability is a good goal for a tiny cabinet.
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There is a ferrite magnet version of the 6MDN44 called the 6MD38. The magnet is huge and actually won't fit into the tiny back chamber volume without enlarging it. So it worked out well that I am using the 6MDN44, which also has a lower Qts.
Keep in mind the 0.35x scale box is 7.8 in wide (slightly enlarged from nominal to fit bezel better), 6.0 in deep (slightly smaller than 6.25 nominal to preserve volume), and 11.5 in tall. By all accounts, a small bookshelf speaker. I will be quite happy if this can hit 100Hz because the max SPL will be pretty good.
Keep in mind the 0.35x scale box is 7.8 in wide (slightly enlarged from nominal to fit bezel better), 6.0 in deep (slightly smaller than 6.25 nominal to preserve volume), and 11.5 in tall. By all accounts, a small bookshelf speaker. I will be quite happy if this can hit 100Hz because the max SPL will be pretty good.
X - between two projects - which would you favor first?- 0.55 scale with 10? or 0.8 with Kappa12a? I'm pretty sure that within its range the 10K would be potent plus with rear mounting and cutout not much larger than cone diameter, visually deceptive in nature. Some of the outcome would depend upon the subwoofer. A PPSL small sub could be interesting.
I like the 0.55x with a 10in - different than a 0.8x with a 12in which you have probably done already. I don't know if you have played with a 0.55x. Which 10in driver were you thinking of?
I glued up double layer K wings last night and made a bunch of foam core cleats to put under the panel for screw down. I should be able to test with a stiffer and airtight K aperture soon. I hope the fb drops to 100Hz. I have the feeling it may not - the suspension on this mid is stiff as heck and the cone barely moves when I push on it. That is how they get a 150Hz fs. Maybe asking it to hit 50Hz below fs is too much?
I glued up double layer K wings last night and made a bunch of foam core cleats to put under the panel for screw down. I should be able to test with a stiffer and airtight K aperture soon. I hope the fb drops to 100Hz. I have the feeling it may not - the suspension on this mid is stiff as heck and the cone barely moves when I push on it. That is how they get a 150Hz fs. Maybe asking it to hit 50Hz below fs is too much?
- got like 3 pairs of regular K12 with slit vent cabs and one pair of factory Karlsonettem K12s - just none built like K15
I've a new spec Eminence B102 in a mini K15 which is very close to 0.55 scale - and its impressive in its range
it might be difficult to get 100Hz out of your B&C- did cutoff drop any after the better seal? - as an odd experiment, you
could vertically block off part of te aperture and see if that affects lows at all
18.7 x 13.6 x 11.5 in. external dimensions - my camera is misplaced - there's a B102 in it now
I've a new spec Eminence B102 in a mini K15 which is very close to 0.55 scale - and its impressive in its range
it might be difficult to get 100Hz out of your B&C- did cutoff drop any after the better seal? - as an odd experiment, you
could vertically block off part of te aperture and see if that affects lows at all
18.7 x 13.6 x 11.5 in. external dimensions - my camera is misplaced - there's a B102 in it now
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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hey X - do you think 4-Eminence Delta10a packed into something about K15 size would have pretty good kick? the four 2.5" coils would have decent thermal power handling - for stereo, one could use a cheap 1kw/channel @8 ohm amp. If built with neo, then could perhaps make a good bass guitar speaker.
the result might be called that - not much more than a cubic foot per driver should be enough for the rear chamber - dunno about the front - what do you think the sensitivity would be with the four drivers wired for ~8ohm?- seems like it could be a good alternative for a midbass horn plus have more usable dynamics for high spl work. The baffle would have to be fairly tall. Perhaps 36x24x16 for the box (?)
Resonant Frequency (Fs)66 Hz
DC Resistance (Re)5.42 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)0.74 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms)6.53
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.35
Total Q (Qts)0.33
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)1.1 ft.³
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.18 mm/N
BL Product (BL)14.4 Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)32g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)3.5 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)344.9 cm²
if one isn't rotted then I still have a pair of Ray Newman's 2x12 Sentry IV EV midbass
Resonant Frequency (Fs)66 Hz
DC Resistance (Re)5.42 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)0.74 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms)6.53
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.35
Total Q (Qts)0.33
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)1.1 ft.³
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.18 mm/N
BL Product (BL)14.4 Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)32g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)3.5 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)344.9 cm²
if one isn't rotted then I still have a pair of Ray Newman's 2x12 Sentry IV EV midbass
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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hey X - regarding your 0.35x K15 with B&C 6MDN44
- how do you feel that turned out for a potential K-midrange speaker for 3-way K-use? - are some 8" better suited? can a 6.5" be sourced with high power handling, high sensitivity and somewhat lower fs to any advantage? - what is a reasonable lower crossover point wit a 6 inch speaker to keep some semblance of dynamics? - I never had a great little K to attempt integration with K15/18. (btw, you need to make a "standard" K-tube for compression driver to get an idea of how that does). Are a lot of the good characteristics of the Karlson aperture available from just using it from say 150Hz or so upwards in conjunction with other bass approaches?
- how do you feel that turned out for a potential K-midrange speaker for 3-way K-use? - are some 8" better suited? can a 6.5" be sourced with high power handling, high sensitivity and somewhat lower fs to any advantage? - what is a reasonable lower crossover point wit a 6 inch speaker to keep some semblance of dynamics? - I never had a great little K to attempt integration with K15/18. (btw, you need to make a "standard" K-tube for compression driver to get an idea of how that does). Are a lot of the good characteristics of the Karlson aperture available from just using it from say 150Hz or so upwards in conjunction with other bass approaches?
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That B&C mid had kind of a high fs of 140Hz and couldn't reach 100Hz. It did reach 150Hz just fine though with great cone control and good dynamics. You would need a woofer to get up to 150Hz to cross with it. Another option is to use an 8in with an fs of around 70Hz and that can get 100Hz in 0.45x K. Certainly a coax can work there too. The 0.35x with the B&C 6MDN44 works real well for mids and vocals though. It can get really loud with high sensitivity and good power handling and cone control. Once I get a woofer tester I can do an impedance sweep to see where the tuning ended up. Also good to see how well the sims came.
Delta Pro8a (I've got one), is somewhat less sensitive than the F6 L. Cao fullrange, but can handle more power input. In the little SK8 with truncated slot vent, it didn't have the best sum of front and rear chambers. Fix that and it should be good.
is qts a bit too low? - what is causing the dip in the 90Hz area?
Resonant Frequency (Fs)69 Hz
DC Resistance (Re)5.6 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)0.82 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms)6.43
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.2
Total Q (Qts)0.22
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)0.65 ft.³
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.35 mm/N
BL Product (BL)14.1 Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)19.3g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)3 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)218.2 cm²
Karlsonator6 prototype with L.Cao F6 vs "SK8" with Delta Pro8a
I had fast opening wings on SK8 when testing the Delta8A as those were nice with w8-1772
sometime I'd like for you to try the faster wings on a K.
maybe a mini K15 with 1772 backed by a decent sub would make a nice small system.
here's the little Eminence 8 in SK8 with a piezo K-tube tweeter
the vent was blocked behind the wing area so was about 1/3 the cabinet width
is qts a bit too low? - what is causing the dip in the 90Hz area?
Resonant Frequency (Fs)69 Hz
DC Resistance (Re)5.6 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)0.82 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms)6.43
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.2
Total Q (Qts)0.22
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)0.65 ft.³
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.35 mm/N
BL Product (BL)14.1 Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)19.3g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)3 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)218.2 cm²
Karlsonator6 prototype with L.Cao F6 vs "SK8" with Delta Pro8a
I had fast opening wings on SK8 when testing the Delta8A as those were nice with w8-1772
sometime I'd like for you to try the faster wings on a K.
maybe a mini K15 with 1772 backed by a decent sub would make a nice small system.
here's the little Eminence 8 in SK8 with a piezo K-tube tweeter
the vent was blocked behind the wing area so was about 1/3 the cabinet width
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Here is a photo of the 0.35x scale K15 with the 6MDN44 driver with fully-screwed on K-aperture. I used EVA foam gaskets to seal the double-layer wing panel on. What is interesting is that once the wing was stiffened up with double layering and screws along the perimeter, the famous Karlson "W" appeared. Apparently, this may have something to do with the bandpass effect coming into action. It may be that a loosely fitted and semi-flexible wing gives a flatter frequency response?
Response with stiffer and securely held in place wing:
It looks like it is getting down to about 140Hz - right where fs is. The bass extension was deeper with a loose wing panel.
Response with stiffer and securely held in place wing:
It looks like it is getting down to about 140Hz - right where fs is. The bass extension was deeper with a loose wing panel.
Attachments
IIRC, I got the tightest sound on K15 with 3/4" dowel struts from the front shelf to the wings -they flexed on transients without bracing - besides a shiimmering effect, it can sound like qts was increased - similar modulation can be heard on cabinets with thin wood baffles and from U baffles without crossbracing. Transylvania Power Co.'s (and KK-Audio, Acoustic Control) little Karlson used 3/8" allthread braces to damp wing movement. That's a benign dip (or lack of fill?) on your little B&C K.
when I replaced the regular horizontal slot port of an early Kalrsonette K12 copy with a small rectangular port, there were awful dips. A somewhat larger K15 style vent seemed much better. What happens to the response if you block the vent? How big is the vent on your little K6?
115BK by Acoustic Control
when I replaced the regular horizontal slot port of an early Kalrsonette K12 copy with a small rectangular port, there were awful dips. A somewhat larger K15 style vent seemed much better. What happens to the response if you block the vent? How big is the vent on your little K6?
115BK by Acoustic Control
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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