Improving Tangband W3-1797S Flatcone - diyAudio
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Old 10th February 2013, 03:54 PM   #1
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Default Improving Tangband W3-1797S Flatcone

Hello all,
The W3-1797S is the 3" sandwiched aluminum flat cone unit from Tangband, which a number of you have experience with. In my application, the driver performs quite well in all but just one respect – the highs come off somewhat harsh and lack fine detail. I wish to know, to what extent could this be improved by a filter or any EQ?

It's really almost near-perfect for my use until the very upper ranges. Dispersion is remarkable as others have noted but lacks the fine grain detail of a quality dedicated HF unit – which is not surprising of course.

Any successful experience among others smoothing these out by some means?

Kind regards,
Luca

Last edited by lucadelcarlo; 11th February 2013 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 10th February 2013, 09:27 PM   #2
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Are the drivers burnt in?

As I have noticed filters or equalizers just ruin the picture of this flatcone, play with positioning and horizontal/vertical orientation

how do you use them, any pics?

I've used them first in the original packages as enclosures, and that was perfect, then I made a spherical enclosures with minimal baffle, and that's not the near as good as with original packages, maybe there is something in this resonating enclosures, I must research! lol

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Last edited by DYNABLASTERTUNERS; 10th February 2013 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 11th February 2013, 04:59 AM   #3
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Try sticking a round-ish piece (a bit smaller than a dime) of felt on the front of the built in grill and it seem to smooth the treble a bit. YMMV. Another way is to stack two of them, one on top of the other, like the commercial speaker (I can't remember the name) that uses the Tang Band. Apparently, there is a sympathetic and/or favorable cancellation that smooths out the highs.
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Old 11th February 2013, 10:35 AM   #4
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Boenicke audio.

Pity the driver's such a swine to get hold of now, it was a nice mid-tweet, albeit not perfect, as you've discovered. The flat profile gives that wide HF dispersion, but the price is that very flat cones are also harder to control; you can see in the (smoothed) plots provided by the manufacturer where there's +10dB gain peaking at 15KHz relative to the nominal indicated (not that they're alone in either of those matters)

Two per channel should as suggested take the top end down through the outputs lobing -not automatically a bad thing if gone into with eyes wide open. Ditto for sitting off-axis, which will flatten the top end out. You could try a notch filter and / or stick a Zobel on them which can often help tame problematic units. Beyond that, you're into mechanical changes, either by adding felt / whatever, or physically isolating and damping those parts of the cone where the resonance is insufficiently controlled. It's probably not just the cone, but that's about as far as you can go on that score without disassembling the entire drive unit and modifying components, which is something beyond what most DIYers are able to practically achieve.

Whether any of that will improve 'detail' is another matter, since it depends what you mean by it. 'Detail' can be an absense of distortion, or increased distortion of a particular kind, e.g. an emphasis in a certain frequency band, higher levels of 3rd harmonic distortion etc. YMMV on that score.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 11th February 2013 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 11th February 2013, 03:16 PM   #5
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I currently reside in Taipei where the Tangband head office is located and where access to those units is less of an issue. I've been in touch with TB on a number of occasions over the years, and have had a long-standing invitation to visit them, and intend to do so in the coming months.

Beyond adding a small amount of felt-like material to the center, I'm interested in the more involved modifications, beginning with the filter (what might an appropriate Zobel look like/what frequencies are targeted?) and even if it were possible and within a certain cost the very advanced modifications to the driver's design. Don't be hesitate to suggest the impractical. I'm interested in what might be optimum, hypothetically, regardless what that entails.

The driver is housed in a small spherical enclosure, sealed.
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Old 11th February 2013, 03:51 PM   #6
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Less a matter of hesitation and more a case of being unable to give any particularly detailed thoughts regarding physical modifications without having some here to measure and pull apart. All drive units are a blend of different compromises.

For the Zobel, it's just a straightforward shunt resistor & cap. in parallel with the drive unit to flatten its rising HF impedance. Normally they're used for woofers / midbass drivers to ensure the XO has a constant load, but they can (can) sometimes help get some control into a widebander. A notch filter is different in that it's principally designed to attenuate a specific frequency region, e.g. an uncontrolled resonance peak. Ideally, you'll need to measure your drive units in the box they are intended to be used in / are being used in, so you know exactly what they're up to.

FWIW, if you're running them in a sphere, try getting some more damping material into the middle of that box.
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Old 12th February 2013, 02:37 PM   #7
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Firstly, many thanks for your input. Both the amount and type of damping material was sorted through earlier, certainly to noticeable benefit. The Zobel would be the next area of experimentation. I've been reluctant to opt for a FR over a quality coax, but another round of trials with the W3 is called for. The coax used earlier is a hybrid of parts, and does not exist ready made (after years of attempting to source it anywhere on globe) Before exploring a ground up design for such a driver in collaboration with a local OEM here, the limits to any improvement on the W3 should be found.

Last edited by lucadelcarlo; 12th February 2013 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 19th February 2013, 11:53 AM   #8
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I guess some kind of DSP/active EQ and /or cone treatment. Always wanted to make a 2 way system matching this TB and an Accuton bass driver, but wd be damn expensive.
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Old 19th February 2013, 03:32 PM   #9
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If I proceed with this, it would be in the context of a very small satellite-style speaker, where the Tangband handles everything above 120hz, approximately, except for the very top frequencies, covered by a small dedicated tweeter.

I simply do not care for the way the TB performs at the top end, finding it lacking in various ways. The use of a diminutive 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch HF unit crossed over exceptionally high is under consideration, a textile dome type, with all units managed by an external miniDSP. It's an experiment. The TB may be coupled as well to a passive radiator or used as a pair in a push-push configuration, attempting to gain greater extension in a very low volume enclosure.

Last edited by lucadelcarlo; 19th February 2013 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 20th February 2013, 07:17 AM   #10
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120Hz is too low, at least 250-300Hz if you want normal listening volume
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