Not with the new Canadian $100 bills though, all polymer now..
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/bank-note-series/polymer/
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/bank-note-series/polymer/
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Rick while I'm sure there is some truth to what you say. I believe overall you are mistaken in your POV. To explain why I'm saying this let's start by taking a look at the uber-expensive prices of some highly regarded & highly sought after ---{at least by those who can afford them}--- drivers that many audiophiles, even full-range driver aficionados like myself, really do refer to as "Full-Rangers gone wild" the Feastrex line of single full-range drivers! Much of the Feastrex "sound" is attributed to their usage of Washi paper in their cones! I'm curious, did you know that making Washi paper is considered by the Japanese to be an artisan handcraft? Did you know there are many different varieties of Washi paper?
The type of Washi paper selected by Feastrex to be used in their main cones ---{this type of Washi paper is known as hosho-shi. It's pronounced phonetically as “hoe-show-she”}-- is very strong and made from the inner bark of type of Mulberry tree in Japan. Now since we're discussing Sonodyne's material of choice and Sonodyne is in Korea, I suppose I should stick to talking about Korean Hanji paper, not Japanese Washi paper, right? Well Rick in case you didn't already know this. I'll inform you Korean papermaking started soon after its birth occured in China. As would probably be expected, at first this Korean paper was crudely made. The Koreans made this early paper (called maji) out of hemp and ramie scraps.
But I digress, I was talking about Hanji paper. Well the origins of Hanji paper in Korea is believed to fall somewhere between the late 500s BC and the 200s BC ---{Hani was eventually developed to the point that it was renowned as being the highest quality paper available in all of East Asia}--- and in 1931, a piece of hanji paper was found at an archeological dig at a tomb site from the Lelang period (108 BC–313 AD). Now this is where this tale really start's getting good. Hanji, like the Japanese Washi, is also made from the inner bark of a type of Mulberry tree! But this is a Mulberry tree that's native to Korea and grows well on its rocky mountain sides! So from that POV these Sonodyne SD-855 eight inch fullrange drivers ---{as well as Sonodyne's other Hanji full-range drivers}--- could be viewed as being the poor man's version of the Feastrex! Granted the Sonodynes do NOT have the awesome motor structure of the Feastrex. And there's no doubt that those field-coils play an important part in the sound of the Feastrex drivers, but at 800,000 Korean Won or it's $716.91 conversion into USD, these Sonodynes cost less than virtually every Feastrex and actually cost a lot less than many Lowthers, Voxativ and even a couple of Fostex fullrange drivers do!
So Rick in this light I'd say that compared to many other full-range/wide-range drivers these Sonodynes aren't very expensive nor are they candidates for Full-range drivers gone wild...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
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Tom, I would suggest that you keep your hands in your pockets!
Lets face it, drivers have changed very little over the last 80+ years, just a frame, magnet, coil and cone.
What is this guy offering, I only see images of the fancy cone and none of the magnet assemblies. Perhaps he is just buying inexpensive Chinese drives and tearing out the cones?
Just selling on ebay does seem to be a little hobbyish, like making bird boxes.
Terry
Lets face it, drivers have changed very little over the last 80+ years, just a frame, magnet, coil and cone.
What is this guy offering, I only see images of the fancy cone and none of the magnet assemblies. Perhaps he is just buying inexpensive Chinese drives and tearing out the cones?
Just selling on ebay does seem to be a little hobbyish, like making bird boxes.
Terry
How many speaker manufacturers or box makers have come and gone over the years it must be many, many hundreds? How many speakers have stood the test of time and are still highly regarded, perhaps a couple of dozen, if that?
It's all about marketing and the more you charge for your product the more you can spend on marketing.
Most speakers are pretty much the same, only the price differs, thats my thinking.
Terry
It's all about marketing and the more you charge for your product the more you can spend on marketing.
Most speakers are pretty much the same, only the price differs, thats my thinking.
Terry
Tom, I would suggest that you keep your hands in your pockets!
Lets face it, drivers have changed very little over the last 80+ years, just a frame, magnet, coil and cone.
What is this guy offering, I only see images of the fancy cone and none of the magnet assemblies. Perhaps he is just buying inexpensive Chinese drives and tearing out the cones?
Just selling on ebay does seem to be a little hobbyish, like making bird boxes.
Terry
He might have legal problems selling any other way since there is an older indian speaker company which is also called Sonodyne. They are well-established and sell in over 40 countries hence it may well be illegal for korean Sonodyne to officially sell anything speaker related under that name internationally.
The original Sonodyne predates the korean one by 30 years.
frame, magnet, coil and cone stuck in a box, nothing has really changed in 80 years, just the hyperbole.
I believe materials science will hold the key to our loudspeaker "perfection" goal.
Many have looked far & wide throughout our natural world, trying to find a cone material with the seeming 'perfect' qualities.....Infinite stiffness, zero resonance, zero mass.
Here's something I found in National Geographic.......There was a close-up picture of a Dandylion in "seeding".....We know the ones, round fluffy,wispy seeds from the weed. Lying atop this was what looked like a sub-miniature bridge truss.......the article went on to explain this as a newly manufactured substance which promises virtually no mass and extremely rigid.
I'm flipping thru my subscriptions worth trying to find the image & article....very promising material.
_____________________________________________________Rick........
Many have looked far & wide throughout our natural world, trying to find a cone material with the seeming 'perfect' qualities.....Infinite stiffness, zero resonance, zero mass.
Here's something I found in National Geographic.......There was a close-up picture of a Dandylion in "seeding".....We know the ones, round fluffy,wispy seeds from the weed. Lying atop this was what looked like a sub-miniature bridge truss.......the article went on to explain this as a newly manufactured substance which promises virtually no mass and extremely rigid.
I'm flipping thru my subscriptions worth trying to find the image & article....very promising material.
_____________________________________________________Rick........
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Terry at this point: "Most speakers are pretty much the same, only the price differs..." I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with you. While I know everything from the magnet, to the frame to the cone itself, affects the sound playback of a driver. I have come to learn ---{from much experimentation on the part of my friend Mike Rispoli with cone doping}--- that a cone's material and the doping of that material, will probably have the greatest affect on the quality of the sound playback ---{sometimes for the better & sometimes for the worse, hence the multiple years required for Mike to perfect his "cone doping" or "cone treatment" the term Mike prefers using}--- and the ability of the driver to actually sound like a true unamplified, acoustic, instrument or singer!
I use a Goldenote Audio Stibbert CDP as a transport. This is connected to an Audio-gd Reference 7.1 DAC via Rullit Audio digital wire. The DAC in turn is connected via custom-made Alan Braun silver ICs to a 40w/ch, SET, Mastersound Reference 845, integrated amp and finally the amp is connected via custom-made Mike Rispoli speaker-wires to a pair of Sachiko double-back-loaded horns. I mention this not to brag, but rather as to provide a frame of reference for you as to the quality of the system which provides the audio signal directly to the full-range drivers I've used in the Sachikos over these past 5 years!
When I first obtained the Sachiko double-back-loaded horns they had Fostex FE206E drivers installed. I later switched to the Fostex FE206ES-R drivers, which had a much better extension at both frequency extremes and a much more realistic sound quality vs the FE206E. However once Mike treated the cones of the FE206E drivers with his "cone treatment" they now had an almost equal extension at both frequency extremes as the FE206ES-R drivers had and now they had the much more realistic sound quality vs the FE206ES-R drivers! Of course once Mike treated the FE206ES-R drivers with his "cone treatment" they went back to having the better extension at both frequency extremes and a much more realistic sound quality vs the FE206E.
I was so completely smitten by the sound quality I was hearing! I had never heard such a natural, relaxed sound presentation in my life. This truly sounded like live, unamplified, acoustic instruments. After Mike left, I noticed he had forgotten to take his "cone treatment" with him. So I added even more of the final two steps of what I believe is an 8-step process of his "cone treatment". Unfortunately I learned the hard way, what took Mike so many years to learn to perfect, i.e. ---to know when the cone had been completely treated and adding any more treatment would now detract from the sound quality!
I had "killed" my FE206ES-R drivers, because there was no going back. Yes there are chemicals that will remove a good bit of Mike's treatment, but to these ears, the chemicals leave something behind that prevents the cones from ever being as good as they previously where. I was very depressed after that error on my part and finally went with the very expensive -$1.8K/pr.- and very rare -250 pairs worldwide- Fostex Fe208ES-R drivers. I used these for about 18 months with a Fostex T900a super-tweeter crossed in at 8Khz. As much as I knew Mike's "cone treatment" would enhance their sound quality I wanted to keep their resale value high, so I refrained from having their cones treated.
To bring this long-winded post to it's near end, I must come to January 2013. My friend Mike called and told me that he had just finished treating a $275 pair of Dayton PS220-8 drivers. Mike said he had never heard such a dramatic change in a cone's sound quality as he had when applying his "cone treatment" to these Dayton's cones! He really got my attention when he said he believed these would literally embarrass my $1.8K Fostex FE208ES-R drivers in my Sachikos. I had my doubts about that happening, but I also knew how much Mike's "cone treatment" had enhanced the sound quality of previous cones it had been applied to!
So take make an even longer-winded post as short as possible, I told Mike to come over and let me hear these Dayton PS220-8 full-range drivers he had treated. Well all I can say is I was so impressed with what I heard I immediately went to Parts Express called their 1-800 number and ordered a pair of those drivers and had them sent directly to Mike for treatment! I've been using them ever since. I'm saving the FE208ES-R for increased resale value and I'm enjoying the most natural sound of live, unamplified, acoustic instruments and singers I've ever heard since installing Mike's treated Dayton PS220-8 drivers.
Terry you might believe "Most speakers are pretty much the same, only the price differs..." but I know from personal experience the reality is: Most speakers are pretty much the same. It's the quality of the cone material and treatment used that causes their sound playback capabilities to truly differ! Hence my truly wanting to hear what the Sonodyne SD855 drivers with hanji paper sounds like. Tell next time enjoy listening to the music...
Thetubeguy (Tom Scata)
Sorry Tom, I would not let anyone near my vintage Tannoy Yorks with a bottle of "secret sauce" in their grubby little mits
These bloody Tannoys are better than money in the bank and sound just fabulous connected to a cheap D-amp. This must indicate how speakers have NOT changed over the years.
Doping is not speaker making, more of an after market service?
I am not searching for the perfect sound, I'm too old for that.
Terry
What is the recipe for that and how can I find some to try on my Visatons?
Hello Costis! I'm afraid that Mike won't give out the specific combination of doping materials used in his "cone treatment" process. Why? well although you'd have to ask Mike himself I believe it took him over 10 years to develop his present usage of 10 to 12 steps in his proprietary process of doping the cones, allowing them to dry, listening to the changes imparted by the cone treatment at that stage and then repeating the process of doping them again etc. until at last he feels the process is complete and any additional application of doping material would be detrimental to the driver's sonics! While the application of specific various doping materials in a specific order is something that can be written on a piece of paper. What MUST be learned and what cannot be taught via any set of instructions on a piece of paper, is what & Mike finally learned to listen for in those numerous drying and listening steps! What does he finally "hear" that tells him the application of any additional doping material would be detrimental to the driver's sonics?
Costis I cannot tell you how many times Mike has talked about all the drivers ---{drivers Mike had to buy out of his own pocket}--- he purchased & used and "destroyed" over the years while developing his present "cone treatment" process. Until at long last Mike finally learned how much of which doping material, in which specific order, when to allow them to completely dry in the various application steps and what to listen for that tells him, the affects of any additional applied doping materials would destroy the sonics, until at last his proprietary cone doping process was perfected!
As I said previously it took Mike over 10 years ---{you can ask Mike yourself about specific amount of time 8, 9 or 10+ years it took to develop his "cone treatment" process]--- Mike is actually very open about his process and will answer almost any question you might want to ask him about his "cone treatment" process. He'll also provide names of people who've had his "cone treatment" process applied to their various drivers that you can contact and ask what their impressions of his "cone treatment" did to enhance the sound quality of their drivers! If Mike doesn't have their email addresses, I have some as some are part of the SETriodes forum that I moderate online. So Costis I'd really suggest you emailing Mike at mike@woodworksofdistinction.com or calling him at: 407-654-6933 Finally this is Mike's website: woodworksofdistinction.com
Mike is a master-level Wood Finisher, Cabinet Refinisher and he provides Architectural Finishing Solutions of wood of any kind in businesses & homes of some of the richest people here in Florida. Just check out his client list when you visit his website! So sadly you won't see anything about treating drivers because that's a sort of hobby for him that developed from his love of audio. So you won't see anything about anything audio there ---{I'm trying to convince Mike he really needs to add a page for audio}--- but you will see the quality of his woodwork, get an idea of the types of chemicals he used and how he developed his incredible "cone treatment"
NOTE: Mike is a very good friend of mine. I am only sharing the info here because having paid for his cone treatment myself and have used his cone treatment on these drivers: Fostex FE206E, FE206ES-R and Dayton PS220-8. I can attest to the remarkable transformation in these drivers. Once treated they sound so much more like live, unamplified, acoustic instruments & singers do, when compared to how they sounded in their original untreated form! I receive no financial gain nor do I work for Mike. I share this info so as to be 100% honest with anyone who reads this post. For those who believe I have something to gain from this. You can just say you read something about Mike and his process on the internet because Mike's also been mentioned on Hawthorne Audio forum by someone else. So I suggest leaving me and my name out completely for your own peace of mind.
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Out of genuine interest Tom, since I recall you mentioning Mike's driver modifications before, how does he assess the changes, and vary the application from unit to unit to achieve an optimum? Since he's doping the cones, even if 90% of what is presumably painted on evaporates, there will be some mass added, which will more or less subtly depending on the specific driver change the overall electromechanical properties, reducing damping and efficiency. It will also, I imagine, change the stiffness and micro-resonance / emitance behaviour of the cone substrate, which will of course alter the frequency response, exactly how presumably depending on the quantity of the treatment added and exactly where on the cone surface it is applied? Sorry for the questions, but I'm increasingly interested in driver design, so am always curious about such things and their effects.
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A question Tom, the guy with the "secret sauce" dopes your speaker cone to his own perceived goodness, correct?
The following is from a speaker enclosure building book.
"Hearing is a very personal matter, and must be dealt with on a personal basis. You may have be born with a large bone structures; I with small ones. You were born with certain anatomical features in your ear. I was born with the same general features, but in different mechanical proportions. The same sound that I hear, as it strikes your eardrum, may move that sensitively streached mambrane in a slightly different manner. Why? We may be of different ages; perhaps my ear mechanism has become more ossified than yours. Perhaps you have had a sinus condition that has affected your hearing mechanism, or perhaps you are a woman and have more sensitive physiological auditory reactions. Our hearing processes grow older, just as our hair grows grayer, our hearing processes change accordingly. All these factors combine to produce different reactions within the inner ear of different individuals. ........"
This makes sense to me. Terry
The following is from a speaker enclosure building book.
"Hearing is a very personal matter, and must be dealt with on a personal basis. You may have be born with a large bone structures; I with small ones. You were born with certain anatomical features in your ear. I was born with the same general features, but in different mechanical proportions. The same sound that I hear, as it strikes your eardrum, may move that sensitively streached mambrane in a slightly different manner. Why? We may be of different ages; perhaps my ear mechanism has become more ossified than yours. Perhaps you have had a sinus condition that has affected your hearing mechanism, or perhaps you are a woman and have more sensitive physiological auditory reactions. Our hearing processes grow older, just as our hair grows grayer, our hearing processes change accordingly. All these factors combine to produce different reactions within the inner ear of different individuals. ........"
This makes sense to me. Terry
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