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Old 21st May 2009, 05:21 AM   #31
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Every design has its trade-offs. Even Tysen as it is could be shrunk, and/or made more compact.

SDX7 works in as little as 7 litres (Q=0.7). If you can live with a bump (Q=1.1) you can squeeze it into 3.5 litre. The length of the TL in Tysen is only as long as is needed to side-mount the SDX7.

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Old 21st May 2009, 06:15 AM   #32
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Here is what i mean... this is the one with the 3.5 litre bass enclosure.

Click the image to open in full size.

http://p10hifi.net/tlinespeakers/FAL...map-200509.pdf

You could substitute Alpair 5 or 6 or a 3" HiVi or a TB or ...

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Old 21st May 2009, 04:16 PM   #33
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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This looks like a good size.

How does it work with the woofer on the side like this because a pairing of Alpair 5 + the SDX7 would imply an XO of around 200Hz and this is high enough to be directional ??

Also, to get down to a solid 40Hz would the SDX7 need and benefit from eq. ?
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Old 21st May 2009, 05:00 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bigun
This looks like a good size.

How does it work with the woofer on the side like this because a pairing of Alpair 5 + the SDX7 would imply an XO of around 200Hz and this is high enough to be directional ??

Also, to get down to a solid 40Hz would the SDX7 need and benefit from eq. ?
With an Alpair 5 @200Hz, you'll need a steep slope xover. The Alpair 5 doesn't like bass nor power. You should consider higher.

Directionality: This is somewhat listener dependent, room dependent, source material dependent, distance from the drivers, and frequency dependent. The steeper the slope on the woofer LP filter, the higher Fc can be without noticing the driver's location. 250Hz 2nd order is a good compromise/starting point.

40Hz from a sealed enclosure requires either a 12" or larger driver or a good equalizer. I suppose it's possible with the SDX7. Predicted F3 in 3.5L for the SDX7 is ~80Hz. The bump mentioned by Dave is somewhat configurable by adding stuffing to the enclosure. A lot would depend on how much "free air" is around the speakers and how much room gain is added.

If you're not using a sub, I'd consider the SEAS L16RN-SL. Linkwitz used it in his Pluto II (a FAST design). It likes small vented enclosures and provides very good, low-distortion bass (45Hz). It's smaller in size and cheaper (at least in the US).
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Old 21st May 2009, 06:36 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by HareBrained
With an Alpair 5 @200Hz, you'll need a steep slope xover. The Alpair 5 doesn't like bass nor power. You should consider higher.

Directionality: This is somewhat listener dependent, room dependent, source material dependent, distance from the drivers, and frequency dependent. The steeper the slope on the woofer LP filter, the higher Fc can be without noticing the driver's location. 250Hz 2nd order is a good compromise/starting point.
The XO on Tysen is 333. I'd do the A5 exactly the same way. On Tyson the speakers are toed in quite dramatically, the combination of that, the slow XO on the woofer, makes for a pretty seamless blend.

I'd expect these little ones would be more of a super hi-end computer speaker, because if you need to put them on stands, why not just extend the box to the floor.

With that consideration a lower cross is doablable without overload.

I have been using uFonken with dual SDX7 XOed at a 100 Hz 2nd order both sides. When i get a chance to do a new XO i'll move that up a bit, but even there i have few issues with strain.

dave
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Old 21st May 2009, 06:41 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by HareBrained
40Hz from a sealed enclosure requires either a 12" or larger driver or a good equalizer. I suppose it's possible with the SDX7. Predicted F3 in 3.5L for the SDX7 is ~80Hz. The bump mentioned by Dave is somewhat configurable by adding stuffing to the enclosure. A lot would depend on how much "free air" is around the speakers and how much room gain is added.
With a bit of EQ i've had SDX7 reaching 25-30 Hz in room (measured). A Linkwitz transform could be used with the smaller box (at a level/power requirement cost).

I usually look at the F10 as more indicative of how low these go.

Attached is the example sim i did for the sealed SDX7 (volume, 3.5/7/14/21 litres, no stuffing)

dave
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File Type: gif sdx7-sealed-sims.gif (28.6 KB, 2100 views)
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Old 30th May 2009, 06:01 PM   #37
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Round two for me and the FAST sysytem. This round I'm going with a Dynaudio 15W75-08 ported at 50hz and a single CHR-70 in an open baffle. Preliminary listening crossed at 350Hz near Textbook sounds very very good if I must say so myself, although in bastardised boxes LOL.

The bass from the 15W75 is very fast articulate and controled compared to many midbasses I've used, Hence why I still have them and use them frequently. They ChR-70's perform like they were meant to work in this role, seamless integration and damn near the best mids I've heard from a fullrange, next to the stock Fostex FF85K it is much more detailed due to the metal cone yet lacks the extended top end of the FF85K, something I do enjoy about the FF85K.

Even though the listed efficiency of the CHR-70 is slightly higher than the 15W75 the open baffle seems to compensate for the slight differences.

As with the Tysen this combo is limited to 105-110dB peaks, so more a small room type speaker but within it's limitation it's pretty neat to see these things blow some of my higher end drivers away. I was feeding them power Bi-amped passively with 45-50W LM3875 Gainclones, but the impedance of the CHR-70's drops below 3Ohms and the gainclones even though they don't even burp get reletively hot with that load. So even driven with one amp these sing like some mega big buck contenders, I'll post a pic once non prototype enclosures are built but it may be some time as I have 2 stereo F5's on the go currently so they take front row seating in the project arena.

I'll keep an eye on you Tysen progress, as I may try a Passive Line Level X-over when the F5's are done, anyway these FAST systems are quickly becoming a favorite system of mine to build, Peace and keep well.

Speaks
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Old 9th June 2009, 02:55 AM   #38
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Hi Dave,

Quote:
Originally posted by planet10
Here is what i mean... this is the one with the 3.5 litre bass enclosure.

Quote:
Originally posted by planet10
Attached is the example sim i did for the sealed SDX7 (volume, 3.5/7/14/21 litres, no stuffing)
But aren't you losing the glory of a SDX7 with that small of a box?

Wouldn't it be more efficient to go with a "lesser" driver in that size?

Cheers!
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Old 9th June 2009, 03:50 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geek
But aren't you losing the glory of a SDX7 with that small of a box?

Wouldn't it be more efficient to go with a "lesser" driver in that size?
You certainly aren't maximizing its potential.

Not that many drivers that like small boxes.... the SDX7 would certainly be relaxed.

dave
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Old 28th July 2009, 10:25 PM   #40
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Default Re: Tysen as an example

Quote:
Originally posted by planet10


I bet a lot of you have bits laying around just looking for a project. I can dig out 4 different TB 3" (one set to be used with a pair of vinatge Coral 8" woofers/side), some Jordan J6T, and a set of FE83A (and that is nor considering larger mid-tweeters -- come to think of it Fonken + FonkenWoof falls into this). Some OEM Vifa P17 (for PSB), a set of Jordan JX150, some Foster 12s that are good well up above 1k... & i know i can find more...
hi I was wondering if any one could recommend a set of TB's to use with this design? I was planing on keeping the same woofers.
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