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Old 26th April 2010, 09:51 PM   #491
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Thanks Chrisb, you certainly picked up on what I was thinking!

So the only way I can put my sceptism to bed, is to build one to planet10 spec, or wait and visit someone local who builds one.

But what if it sounds like the box I just built? Does that mean I got lucky and stumbled on a great design, or does it just mean I don't have very discerning hearing!

I dread to ask, but is the 'majik' measurable? Where are the plots of majik and non majik boxes?
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Old 26th April 2010, 10:16 PM   #492
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo1968 View Post
Thanks Chrisb, you certainly picked up on what I was thinking!

So the only way I can put my sceptism to bed, is to build one to planet10 spec, or wait and visit someone local who builds one.

But what if it sounds like the box I just built? Does that mean I got lucky and stumbled on a great design, or does it just mean I don't have very discerning hearing!
I guess the answer to 1) is yes, and 2) is - it would have to be the former as no frequent DIY pos(t)er would admit to the latter

geeze, I just confused myself

Quote:

I dread to ask, but is the 'majik' measurable?
only by the smile on one's face


actually, I'm a bit surprised that I haven't heard from Ivor's lawyers about trademark infringement .... oh wait a sec, there's the doorbell

(that's a joke, 'cause they'd never ring the bell )

I just always liked the spelling of that word

Quote:
Where are the plots of majik and non majik boxes?
I don't know if Dave has actually measured anything recently other than drivers raw T/S during the EnABL treatment and matching process
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Old 26th April 2010, 11:36 PM   #493
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We are waiting till nice whether, a gangplank will be built and we'll be able to get proper free-field results down to ~50 Hz. Measuring kit this summer will be much better than last summer.

dave
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Old 26th April 2010, 11:49 PM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo1968 View Post
I dread to ask, but is the 'majik' measurable?
The Majik happens 40-50 dB down from the main signal.

Probably measurable using available tech, but not usually with the tools mear mortals can afford (lase vibrometry, laser interferometry, microFlown). And then comes the whole correlating measures to what is heard.

dave
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Old 27th April 2010, 12:00 AM   #495
BudP is offline BudP  United States
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The only measurement to date, that I think shows this 40 to 50 db down difference, can be viewed here.

Enable Tests

Note the difference in detail structure of the main resonant node's "nose". Note that the detail structure of the resonance is clearly depicted in one and pretty diffuse in the other.

We appear to be able to disperse these nodes too, but no objective data, other than from a Jordan JX 92, is yet available and it is buried in the original monster thread. No resonant node dispersion attempt was made on the 7 inch aluminum drivers that John K treated with a generic pattern set and tested, showing that improvement in downward dynamics Dave is claiming.

I am sure you will be able to hear it, though some folks take a bit of time to understand what is showing up, as it is not something different, just less confusion and a coherence down to the end of all information.

Bud
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Last edited by BudP; 27th April 2010 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 27th April 2010, 12:34 AM   #496
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I was interested in the difference between dMar-Ken box and other 9l BR boxes, not the eNabling thing. I assumed the driver was a constant in speakrsrfun's comparison of boxes.
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Old 27th April 2010, 05:40 PM   #497
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Originally Posted by jimbo1968 View Post
I was interested in the difference between dMar-Ken box and other 9l BR boxes, not the eNabling thing. I assumed the driver was a constant in speakrsrfun's comparison of boxes.
Independent of the "EnABL thing", and my earlier post might not have been clear enough on this point, but we definitely found in several iterations of different volumes of enclosures for the FE127E and FF85K that the "prime" or "milli" style enclosures that descended from the original mini-onken design for the CSS FR125 had sonic advantages over more conventional (i.e. single or even double) rounded port enclosures of equal internal volume and tuning frequency. Specifically more cleanly articulated and smoother extension on lowest couple of octaves, and the narrow profile and chamfered edges improve imaging - wrap some polka dots around the baffle and side panels, and these can pull quite a disappearing act.

Perhaps there are some measurements reflecting the objective effect of the resistive slot ports?
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Old 27th April 2010, 06:47 PM   #498
BudP is offline BudP  United States
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Quote:
Specifically more cleanly articulated and smoother extension on lowest couple of octaves, and the narrow profile and chamfered edges improve imaging - wrap some polka dots around the baffle and side panels, and these can pull quite a disappearing act.
I agree. These are the most invisible speakers I have had in my system (Fe127eN and Fonken prime boxes). The bass is clear and detailed into the mid 30's with power that scales to that of the higher frequencies, rather than starting to compress as the spl goes up.

Quite startling to hear pipe organ music, coming out very clearly during the intervals between voice coil exiting the gap, from the 16 Hz signals. Very clear and clean and momentarily silent and back to very clear and clean. Heard in a 30 X 60 X 12 foot room while playing one of the pieces from Cantate Domino and filling the room with everything except wall shaking bass, from a pair of 4 inch drivers, at a Pacific NW Audio Society demo.

I think I was most impressed with the robust character of the system and the control over the driver that the resistive ports provided, under those extreme conditions.

Bud
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:54 PM   #499
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OK let me clarify that my comparison is based on three different BR style boxes all running with first gen CHR-70 stock. My 9L ported/BR design is just a standard slot loaded design tuned to roughly 55Hz, 7L ported tuned to 70hz and the dMar-Ken. I never did any real posting of these designs because many have done it in the past and it seems redundant to post another CHR-70 BR design without it being a different beast altogether. With that being said the dMar-Ken for the CHR-70 seems to be much better braced and a much less resonant cabinet than the standard open box and brace design the BR generally allows. Not only is there an off center brace but the slot resistive ports are providing some pretty extreme rigidity themselves and the driver itself is coupled to the central brace. Another thing I have noticed so far is due to the ports being built the way they are in the deci style cabinet it acts somewhat like a constrained layer and eliminates most of the transfer of cabinet vibration that a standard BR box isn't privy to. I would say at this point that’s where the better definition and punch in the bottom end are coming from, more or less an inert cabinet and the resistive ports. I’ll elaborate later in my review…
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:21 PM   #500
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speakrsrfun View Post
OK let me clarify that my comparison is based on three different BR style boxes all running with first gen CHR-70 stock. My 9L ported/BR design is just a standard slot loaded design tuned to roughly 55Hz, 7L ported tuned to 70hz and the dMar-Ken. I never did any real posting of these designs because many have done it in the past and it seems redundant to post another CHR-70 BR design without it being a different beast altogether. With that being said the dMar-Ken for the CHR-70 seems to be much better braced and a much less resonant cabinet than the standard open box and brace design the BR generally allows. Not only is there an off center brace but the slot resistive ports are providing some pretty extreme rigidity themselves and the driver itself is coupled to the central brace. Another thing I have noticed so far is due to the ports being built the way they are in the deci style cabinet it acts somewhat like a constrained layer and eliminates most of the transfer of cabinet vibration that a standard BR box isn't privy to. I would say at this point that’s where the better definition and punch in the bottom end are coming from, more or less an inert cabinet and the resistive ports. I’ll elaborate later in my review…


as Dave would say



or

yup, that's what we've been saying
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