MJK’s Jordan JX92S OB with a Goldwood GW-1858 Woofer in an H Frame - Page 51 - diyAudio
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Old 21st May 2010, 03:34 PM   #501
T101 is offline T101  Bulgaria
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VIX, you are welcome, just PM me before your visit!

Now guys, don't laugh much at what is following!

1. Today I found out that both my woofers were connected with opposite polarity

2. One of the filters for the woofers was connected with the inductance's upper layer as "IN" and the inside as "OUT" and the other was the opposite - I must mention that both were on the + wire

3. I connected both inductances in a way that the outer layer is now "IN" and the inner is "OUT"

4. I connected both woofers from opposite polarity to normal, now + comes from the amp, gets in the inductance from the outside wire, gets out of the inductance from the inner wire and goes to the + terminal of the woofer=

5. Capacitors are intact and are in parallel after the inductance - just to mention...

6. I removed one of the 22mf capacitors and now I have 132mf in parallel instead of 154 before - I doubt that this is the cause thou...


7. And now I have no bass it's weak resemblance of what it was

I assume something might be magnetized in the opposite way due to the long listening with opposite polarity. Is possible the core of the reversed inductance to be magnetized in the wrong direction and now to need some time?

What do you think?

In the before condition I had noticed that the bass is stronger from the back of the H-frames, but thought that it should be that way... Now it's weaker from both sides

I'm desperate!

p.s. now the sound is clearer and the sound stage improved dramaticly - positioning is far-far better... but the bass...
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Old 21st May 2010, 07:18 PM   #502
GM is offline GM  United States
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Phase wise, the LF precedes the mids, etc., so if all drivers were wired phase correct, the tweeter would be furthest away from the listening position (LP) and the (sub) woofer closest, or even behind it depending on the system's band-width (BW) and how close the LP is to the tweeter, etc..

From a simplistic POV then, if the (sub)woofer is ~on the same plane referenced to the LP it needs to be wired in opposite polarity referenced to the 'HF' driver it's XO'd to and why the rule-of-thumb (ROT) to swap a driver's leads and leave it the way it sounds loudest came about.

If multi-amping and the sub's amp has an adjustable phase pot it can be dialed in a bit more accurately, i.e. louder. Note that with 4th order XOs there's a 1 Hz phase shift, so normally there's no audible increase in loudness, though depending on your phase hearing acuity you may find one polarity or setting sounds subjectively a bit more 'right'.

WRT inductor wiring, sound is AC, so it shouldn't matter which way they are connected. Indeed, I can't recall ever seeing any markings on one that implied a polarity.

Bottom line, it 'sounds' like you had it right the first time.

GM
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Old 21st May 2010, 07:26 PM   #503
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Hi T101,
Ivan Vulchev, did he work at Vissokogovoriteli PLC? If so, are your tweeters something like VLD40?

Peter
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Old 22nd May 2010, 09:27 AM   #504
T101 is offline T101  Bulgaria
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Thank you GM! Now I'l try to reverse the polarity of the midrange and see what happens.

Peterborsson, Ivan Vulchev has been the leading professor and scientist in our country. There is probability that VLD-40 is his invention - I'l ask him, he lives nearby... My tweeters are something like far relatives of VLD, like EVO-5.

There are two or even three problems with them:

1. Hard to crossover, they need steep curves

2. Capricious on crossover components - one crappy capacitor and you'l hear it!

3. Capricious on recording... If there is noise you hear it, due to the high bandwidth if there is something outside the recording, but within your hrearing range you hear it, if the cymbals are too loud, they will be too loud, if you are unfortunate to buy some records mastered for tube amps, you are lost!
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Old 22nd May 2010, 05:33 PM   #505
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Thanks T101,
I had some friends that used VLD40 with a horn, I'm not sure as they were sold under Gamma brand. They were called VLD12 and VLD13.
Edit: They were VLD13, not VLD40!


In my friends speakers, x-over was at 3.5 kHz with 2nd order filter and replacements of foil were often needed , minimum 3rd order would maybe be sufficient. Quite good tweeters for the prize, especially if bought in Bulgaria.

Peter

Last edited by peterbrorsson; 22nd May 2010 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 23rd May 2010, 03:05 PM   #506
T101 is offline T101  Bulgaria
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I have another question. What are the minimal distances from the H-frame? Back, sides and front respectively.

Because now I have two sofas in front of them at about 3 feet, the wall on the rear is at 1.5 feet and on the sides they are on one foot from the walls.
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Old 24th May 2010, 04:29 PM   #507
T101 is offline T101  Bulgaria
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Hi to all! I found the bass!

It occurs that when the OB part is smaller, the bass is weaker... at leat it is weaker when there is a wall behind the H-frame...

I made another OB with Fane Sovereign 6-100 and again with NDRL ribbon tweeters. The clarity and positioning with the new smaller OB's are great! The details are much more and the scene is very accurate.

I apply the the schematics of the crossover of the new OB.

I must point that all my problems with the bass were with the new smaller OB!
Additionally I found out that the Goldwood must be connected IN PHASE and with the signal entering the inner layer of the inductance and exiting the inductance through the outer layer!
I returned the 7-th 22 mf capacitor and now again the capacitance in the low pass is 154mf.

Now with the inductances connected right and with the Goldwoods in phase and the big OB on top the bass is TREMENDOUS! Low as it could be and loud as it could be! FINALLY!
There is only one catch in my particular listening room - the listener must be at least 12 feet away in order to hear all the depth of the bass...

If someobe is interested I can upload the drawing with the dimensions of the small OB... sadly it does not work for me as it permits cancellation of the reflected wave in front of the H-frame... But for someone with more space behind the H-frame it would be GREAT! I have put allot effort to make it sing right and I will be glad to know that someone obliged from my work!

Best regards!
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Old 24th May 2010, 09:59 PM   #508
Vix is offline Vix  Yugoslavia
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Good that you sorted it out! OB's have really only this drawback-they need a big room (and I don't), and if I ever give up on them, it will be for this reason (small room).

Regards,

Vix
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Old 24th May 2010, 10:34 PM   #509
GM is offline GM  United States
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Do what ?! Small room = small width OB with appropriately lower Qts drivers and let the room boost them.

GM
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Old 25th May 2010, 04:44 AM   #510
brookbh is offline brookbh  United States
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GM,

do you have some examples/links to smaller room open baffles using lower qts drivers and narrower baffles?

thanks
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