Any opion about these?
I found them here,
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/
I was thinking maybe they would sound nice in a large lounge like mine. And If I'm going to spend money and pay hideous amounts of postage, may as well go for the big mothers.......
Your comment would be appreciated.
I found them here,
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/
I was thinking maybe they would sound nice in a large lounge like mine. And If I'm going to spend money and pay hideous amounts of postage, may as well go for the big mothers.......
Your comment would be appreciated.
Attachments
They look decent enough, although with such a high Vas, they're going to need a hefty sized cabinet. Worth looking into, as they certainly appear to be both well build and engineered. I'd be adding tweeters to them though -no way is a cone of that size going to do 20KHz. Even assuming it can get up there, it's not going to do it with much grace. View them as big WR drivers and you're about there.
Scott, you might want to take another look at the rather low quality pictures on the Commonsense website. The stamped basket/frame, particularly the mounting flange looks a little lightweight to me for a "full range 12" - without some damping treatment, I'd be wary of ringing.
Of course, at $200 per pair, there isn't an overabundance of FR 12" from which to choose.
Perhaps it would be worth pursuing the option of cast frames as available on their Super 8" ( for only $30 pr more)
As for the "ragged" response graph, for those still pursuing the holy grail of "smooth as silk" graphs, I'd tend to wait until the drivers were fully broken in ( 200-300 hrs of tender abuse) before making any rash decisions about polluting the signal path with any more elaborate than wide band correction.
Even better, some of the current work by Mamboni, Bud P, or others engaged in cone treatment techniques could mitigate issues beyond just a bumpy ride on the test rig, mechanically rather than electronically.
Of course, at $200 per pair, there isn't an overabundance of FR 12" from which to choose.
Perhaps it would be worth pursuing the option of cast frames as available on their Super 8" ( for only $30 pr more)
As for the "ragged" response graph, for those still pursuing the holy grail of "smooth as silk" graphs, I'd tend to wait until the drivers were fully broken in ( 200-300 hrs of tender abuse) before making any rash decisions about polluting the signal path with any more elaborate than wide band correction.
Even better, some of the current work by Mamboni, Bud P, or others engaged in cone treatment techniques could mitigate issues beyond just a bumpy ride on the test rig, mechanically rather than electronically.
Cheers
This will be a one shot deal for me. I don't live in Europe or the US where your dollar has so much buying power. I can't afford to buy something, get it down here & then find out it is cheap rubbish. And then turn around and just go buy another pair.
I was thinking about putting a super tweater with them, what ever FR I end up with. These ones seem quite nice:
http://www.lcy.com.hk/diyhp/25114/enus/home.html
I don't want to blow money on a smaller FR say around 4-6, or maybe even 8in. And then realise they just don't give out a nice sound.
question; Will a smaller speaker have a narrower (hmmmmmmm,how do I put this) listening range. I mean will a smaller speaker have a very small sweet spot. As apposed to a larger driver, so I want have to worry about standing on my head 3.23mtrs from them naked or something to be happy with the sound.
I have been reading a bit on here about FR's, but it's very hard to make a decision. especially when it could turn out to be a very expensive mistake.
Those hemp ones seem quite nice as well.......Maybe i should just stick to the 8in. Theres seems to be more options available to me.
PS $200US would be about $500 by the time I landed them here, with the huge postage costs.
This will be a one shot deal for me. I don't live in Europe or the US where your dollar has so much buying power. I can't afford to buy something, get it down here & then find out it is cheap rubbish. And then turn around and just go buy another pair.
I was thinking about putting a super tweater with them, what ever FR I end up with. These ones seem quite nice:
http://www.lcy.com.hk/diyhp/25114/enus/home.html
I don't want to blow money on a smaller FR say around 4-6, or maybe even 8in. And then realise they just don't give out a nice sound.
question; Will a smaller speaker have a narrower (hmmmmmmm,how do I put this) listening range. I mean will a smaller speaker have a very small sweet spot. As apposed to a larger driver, so I want have to worry about standing on my head 3.23mtrs from them naked or something
to be happy with the sound.I have been reading a bit on here about FR's, but it's very hard to make a decision. especially when it could turn out to be a very expensive mistake.
Those hemp ones seem quite nice as well.......Maybe i should just stick to the 8in. Theres seems to be more options available to me.
PS $200US would be about $500 by the time I landed them here, with the huge postage costs.
chrisb said:
Chris, good point about the construction. I took another look at those pictures, & I reckon you're right -they're going to need some basket / magnet damping. FE208ESigma construction quality they are not. Lot of driver for the money though. The cast basket etc would be interesting, if they ever did one.
Re the response, looking at the graphs, they drop off like a stone at 15KHz, so they're going to need a supertweeter up there, capped off probably about 10KHz as we'd do with the big Fostex Sigma unit, which is why I mentioned it.
Hi enzedone,
it's the other way round - large speakers "beam" more than smaller ones. Now I don't know how large your large lounge is, and how sharp your lady's castrating knife...but if Fostex drivers 8" and smaller are available in NZ, Scott and his fearless gang of loonies will have plans to fulfil your needs, fear thee not.
Pit
it's the other way round - large speakers "beam" more than smaller ones. Now I don't know how large your large lounge is, and how sharp your lady's castrating knife...but if Fostex drivers 8" and smaller are available in NZ, Scott and his fearless gang of loonies will have plans to fulfil your needs, fear thee not.
Pitwhat do you mean "beam" . is it raise in frequency response or distortion or something else? my fostex 127 sound may be described as beamed, but only at high volumes, I am pretty sure it is a distortion.
shouldn't larger diameter speaker distort less if played at same volume as smaller speaker?
shouldn't larger diameter speaker distort less if played at same volume as smaller speaker?
MT,
Beaming is just a term to describe how the sound is dispersed through the room. The term beaming means the "sweet spot" will be limited as the driver is focusing it's energy perpendicular to the cone and not spreading it around well. The size of the cone and the frequency determine at what point this is likely to be a concern.
EDIT: Scott posted as I was typing.
Beaming is just a term to describe how the sound is dispersed through the room. The term beaming means the "sweet spot" will be limited as the driver is focusing it's energy perpendicular to the cone and not spreading it around well. The size of the cone and the frequency determine at what point this is likely to be a concern.
EDIT: Scott posted as I was typing.
maybe placing cone in front of the driver can solve beaming problem. something like in fontana speakers.
http://www.e-speakers.com/catalog/fontana_-_pair_4813463.htm
http://www.e-speakers.com/catalog/fontana_-_pair_4813463.htm
I think the diffuser shown in the link will work for an up firing driver but if placed in front of the cone on a vertical driver would tend to act as a mask. I have wondered about using that sort of thing with radial slots in it allowing some to pass through the diffuser and some to be directed around. Not sure if it has merit though.
Cal Weldon said:
Yours was better mate.
Yes, you're about right -as cone size increases, so the HF sweet-spot tends to narrow. This isn't automatically the case, as some small FR drivers beam something chronic, but it's a good ROT, and it's generally applicable. Of course, whatever you go with, Fostex, AN, anything else, we'll all be here to help you decide on an enclosure.
FWIW, if you're planning on adding a supertweeter, & like the idea of a big cone, then I still reckon the 12in driver has potential, providing the basket is damped. It's certainly a lot of driver for the money.
Cheers
I don't think I've ever seen a design on here for a rear loaded horn. (12inch)
The company that sells those drivers gives you a free design for the enclosure, but it's sealed/base reflex. I've heard a lot about FR's being better off in a horn than a sealed box. But I guess that all comes down to the characteristics of the driver and the listeners own personal tastes.
Mind you, with my limited tools, it would make more sense to go with the sealed box as the more complicated horn.
Food for thought.........
I don't think I've ever seen a design on here for a rear loaded horn. (12inch)
The company that sells those drivers gives you a free design for the enclosure, but it's sealed/base reflex. I've heard a lot about FR's being better off in a horn than a sealed box. But I guess that all comes down to the characteristics of the driver and the listeners own personal tastes.
Mind you, with my limited tools, it would make more sense to go with the sealed box as the more complicated horn.
Food for thought.........
Time
Thanks for the advise. I will keep you in mind when I get the miss's around to my way of thinking and accept the fact that i'm just absolutely,positively completely in need of another set of speakers........................
I would love to here from someone who has actually purchased a set of these or even made a set of 12in FR's.
Scottmoose if it takes me six months to get them do you mind if I email you if i need some advice on these?
Thanks for the advise. I will keep you in mind when I get the miss's around to my way of thinking and accept the fact that i'm just absolutely,positively completely in need of another set of speakers........................
I would love to here from someone who has actually purchased a set of these or even made a set of 12in FR's.
Scottmoose if it takes me six months to get them do you mind if I email you if i need some advice on these?
Enzedone said ".....or even made a set of 12in FR's."
I have made some OB cabinets with Calrad CR12-A drivers. They aren't made anymore, but they can be found on Ebay now and then. (That's where I got mine).
Look here to check them out........
http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1077
I'm pretty happy with them. Seems that the OB style cabinet plays hell with recordings, leaving nowhere for poorly mixed music to hide. Some recordings are great, some sound like trash.
The Calrads are pretty smooth and full. You might want a tweeter crossed in up high , I would like a lil more treble myself, but have dedicated myself to a single driver setup , no tweets for me !
.............Blake
I have made some OB cabinets with Calrad CR12-A drivers. They aren't made anymore, but they can be found on Ebay now and then. (That's where I got mine).
Look here to check them out........
http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1077
I'm pretty happy with them. Seems that the OB style cabinet plays hell with recordings, leaving nowhere for poorly mixed music to hide. Some recordings are great, some sound like trash.
The Calrads are pretty smooth and full. You might want a tweeter crossed in up high , I would like a lil more treble myself, but have dedicated myself to a single driver setup , no tweets for me !
.............Blake
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