I have a flea in my CDP and that was cheap coz the PCB was cheap (even less than that!) and parts not too expensive. I was just looking for some cheap clock to mod a CDP and resell it... but time and money spend on it is not worth the money earned...
It's just a very big money saved in my own CDP =)
It's just a very big money saved in my own CDP =)
Help on Model unit...
Hi Ray,
I had an old Marantz professional recorder/player unit with its "remote control" : the CDR 620. I upgraded the firmware years ago... I suppose there are several other Marantz units which are similar to this one. Do you know which one ? Otherwise what can be done to improve its audio quality ?
When compared to my MacBook Pro the same CD sounded poorly with the Marantz even when using only digital connections like the AES-EBU output...
Of course the analog is far from to be usable !
Thank you for your advice in this tweaking,
OndesX
Hi Ray,
I had an old Marantz professional recorder/player unit with its "remote control" : the CDR 620. I upgraded the firmware years ago... I suppose there are several other Marantz units which are similar to this one. Do you know which one ? Otherwise what can be done to improve its audio quality ?
When compared to my MacBook Pro the same CD sounded poorly with the Marantz even when using only digital connections like the AES-EBU output...
Of course the analog is far from to be usable !
Thank you for your advice in this tweaking,
OndesX
No, i'm sorry, I don't know that model from the inside. But The General Rules of Tweaking can be applied to make it sound better: improve the power supply, change the opamps, improve the analog filter, insert a decent clock...
But first i'd recommend you take a look and see if you can find out what type of DAC this unit uses. If it's old, as you say, it might not be worth the trouble because the gains won't be that big. But every unit can be made to sound better with a few tweaks; it depends on the design what the level of quality will be in the end.
Regards,
Ray
But first i'd recommend you take a look and see if you can find out what type of DAC this unit uses. If it's old, as you say, it might not be worth the trouble because the gains won't be that big. But every unit can be made to sound better with a few tweaks; it depends on the design what the level of quality will be in the end.
Regards,
Ray
Hi Ray6h5c said:After modding a Marantz CD63 and a CD67OSE I decided to make a list of all the various mod's I found here and elsewhere on the internet.
I'd like to donate my files to this forum, for all to enjoy!
Long time no talk....
I am considering using the lollowing clock in my cd53.
It is made in China and uses a 74VHC04 Hex Inverter. Quote:
"The VHC04 is an advanced high speed CMOS Inverter fabricated with silicon gate CMOS technology. It achieves the high speed operation similar to equivalent Bipolar Schottky TTL while maintaining the CMOS low power dissipation."
I believe this IC somehow converts the output of the UT6 16.9344Mhz oscilator....
Would you please explain the differences to the XO capsule...?
What about your own design : http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/ra.vdsteen/cd_clock_en.html
What are the fundamentals of these three options ?
This China PCB looks very nice and is really not expensive... Would I get similar results from any of the above clocks provided I build a dedicated PSU ?
Best regards
Ricardo
Attachments
Re: Re: Marantz CD63 & CD67 mods list
So what ? OK, it has a $0.2 VHCMOS Hex inverter. The description is pretty accurate.
As shown from the schematic, this inverter acts as a buffer for a crystal oscillator of completely unknown specifications. Such an oscillator can cost anywhere from $0.5 to $50 depending on manufacturer, and specs you might not care about (like accuracy), and specs you might care about (like phase noise and jitter). The power supply also looks pretty high-noise to me. LM317 is not known as a low-noise part. So, as far as I can tell from your data the performance of this clock is unknown.
As for regulators, try MIC5205 or LP3985, look at the datasheets, compare the noise to good old LM317, you will know what I mean. Also those regulators cost less than $1, so you can't go wrong ! You can use a LM317 as a pre-regulator, for instance LM317 to make +6V and MIC5205 to make +5V, you will get low thermal dissipation in the extremely tiny MIC5205 and lower noise at the end.
Tent sells what is basically a not very expensive XO at an inflated price because Tent spent lots of time testing lots of XOs to find the right one. Tent also had a deal with the manufacturer to get better specifications on his XO. FYI someone I know asked for something like that from a reputable manufacturer and they were quoted a $2500 design fee because "the frequency is not common" (this manufacturer makes low-jitter parts for telecom gear so they have no stock for audio frequencies).
Personally I find it completely worthwile to pay the price for the Tent oscillator since the time and gear necessary to sort the good one from the bad ones is worth much more that what Tent asks for his oscillator.
If you consider you need a $50K jitter analyzer and a few weeks of lab work to select the right part, well, you get the idea, $50 for a preselected part is a good deal. Also, I like mister Tent, so I have no problem helping him to make a living, lol.
Also, for your power supply, please note that if you feed the clock from the supply in your player, you will get a very nasty ground loop. Since the clock will travel in this ground loop it will radiate like crazy.
Using a separate low-power transformer (pretty cheap) and rectifier bridge like they do in this clock is a very good idea, I encourage you to do that. You should keep the wires from the clock source to the point it is used on the PCB as short as possible, and insert ferrite beads like VK200 in both transformer wires at the PCB to block the RF from the supply.
Also please note that CD63 uses a complete POS DAC so IMHO you'd better tweak a player with a real DAC inside.
RCruz said:
I am considering using the lollowing clock in my cd53.
It is made in China and uses a 74VHC04 Hex Inverter. Quote:
"The VHC04 is an advanced high speed CMOS Inverter fabricated with silicon gate CMOS technology. It achieves the high speed operation similar to equivalent Bipolar Schottky TTL while maintaining the CMOS low power dissipation."
I believe this IC somehow converts the output of the UT6 16.9344Mhz oscilator....
So what ? OK, it has a $0.2 VHCMOS Hex inverter. The description is pretty accurate.
As shown from the schematic, this inverter acts as a buffer for a crystal oscillator of completely unknown specifications. Such an oscillator can cost anywhere from $0.5 to $50 depending on manufacturer, and specs you might not care about (like accuracy), and specs you might care about (like phase noise and jitter). The power supply also looks pretty high-noise to me. LM317 is not known as a low-noise part. So, as far as I can tell from your data the performance of this clock is unknown.
As for regulators, try MIC5205 or LP3985, look at the datasheets, compare the noise to good old LM317, you will know what I mean. Also those regulators cost less than $1, so you can't go wrong ! You can use a LM317 as a pre-regulator, for instance LM317 to make +6V and MIC5205 to make +5V, you will get low thermal dissipation in the extremely tiny MIC5205 and lower noise at the end.
Tent sells what is basically a not very expensive XO at an inflated price because Tent spent lots of time testing lots of XOs to find the right one. Tent also had a deal with the manufacturer to get better specifications on his XO. FYI someone I know asked for something like that from a reputable manufacturer and they were quoted a $2500 design fee because "the frequency is not common" (this manufacturer makes low-jitter parts for telecom gear so they have no stock for audio frequencies).
Personally I find it completely worthwile to pay the price for the Tent oscillator since the time and gear necessary to sort the good one from the bad ones is worth much more that what Tent asks for his oscillator.
If you consider you need a $50K jitter analyzer and a few weeks of lab work to select the right part, well, you get the idea, $50 for a preselected part is a good deal. Also, I like mister Tent, so I have no problem helping him to make a living, lol.
Also, for your power supply, please note that if you feed the clock from the supply in your player, you will get a very nasty ground loop. Since the clock will travel in this ground loop it will radiate like crazy.
Using a separate low-power transformer (pretty cheap) and rectifier bridge like they do in this clock is a very good idea, I encourage you to do that. You should keep the wires from the clock source to the point it is used on the PCB as short as possible, and insert ferrite beads like VK200 in both transformer wires at the PCB to block the RF from the supply.
Also please note that CD63 uses a complete POS DAC so IMHO you'd better tweak a player with a real DAC inside.
I agree, the cost of buying audio freq xtals is quite high.
But why are some people on the 'DACs make all the difference' band wagon. Mostly new dacs are used in newer models of cdp due to marketing because it sells cd players. OK I understand there are different quality dacs, but i would rather have very clean power rails on a pants dac than the other way round
Brent
But why are some people on the 'DACs make all the difference' band wagon. Mostly new dacs are used in newer models of cdp due to marketing because it sells cd players. OK I understand there are different quality dacs, but i would rather have very clean power rails on a pants dac than the other way round
Brent
Re: Re: Re: Marantz CD63 & CD67 mods list
Hmm, having heard the CD63 in various stages of tune and in a variety of systems I don't find there to be a significant weakness and only moderate colouration or character, which I'm not entirely sure is even attributable to the DAC. The weakness I have sometimes heard is a slightly heavy-handed or forceful character, where real music is a little more gracefully delivered.
Please elaborate on your comment, and tell us what, in your opinion, is a good DAC chip.
Thanks,
Simon
peufeu said:
Hmm, having heard the CD63 in various stages of tune and in a variety of systems I don't find there to be a significant weakness and only moderate colouration or character, which I'm not entirely sure is even attributable to the DAC. The weakness I have sometimes heard is a slightly heavy-handed or forceful character, where real music is a little more gracefully delivered.
Please elaborate on your comment, and tell us what, in your opinion, is a good DAC chip.
Thanks,
Simon
Re: Re: Re: Re: Marantz CD63 & CD67 mods list
I will tell you that in a few months, I have quite a few in stock waiting to be tested. Out of the blue I would point a finger in the direction of AD1955, PCM63 and AD1865, I heard all of them, and they were quite good. I cannot compare because the conditions were not identical.
What I didn't like in the CD63 was (mostly) sibilance and lack of detail. I never liked 1-bit anyway, either it's harsh or it's too smooth cause it's noise-shaped to death.
The best tweak I ever did to the CD63 was replacing it with a Rotel which used PCM63. But, retrospectively, looking at the implementation, both sucked (bad layout, high jitter, noisy supplies, bad IV implementation, etc. In order to fix that you'd have to reimplement the entire analog/DAC section so it it's really more than a mod, it's using a CD player as a building block in a larger system, which is a nice project too...
However if you use it as a slaved transport with outboard DAC/clock, the 63 is absolutely excellent since it's drive is very reliable and will read almost anything, even really crappy and cheap CD-R and badly scratched CDs.
I will tell you that in a few months, I have quite a few in stock waiting to be tested. Out of the blue I would point a finger in the direction of AD1955, PCM63 and AD1865, I heard all of them, and they were quite good. I cannot compare because the conditions were not identical.
What I didn't like in the CD63 was (mostly) sibilance and lack of detail. I never liked 1-bit anyway, either it's harsh or it's too smooth cause it's noise-shaped to death.
The best tweak I ever did to the CD63 was replacing it with a Rotel which used PCM63. But, retrospectively, looking at the implementation, both sucked (bad layout, high jitter, noisy supplies, bad IV implementation, etc. In order to fix that you'd have to reimplement the entire analog/DAC section so it it's really more than a mod, it's using a CD player as a building block in a larger system, which is a nice project too...
However if you use it as a slaved transport with outboard DAC/clock, the 63 is absolutely excellent since it's drive is very reliable and will read almost anything, even really crappy and cheap CD-R and badly scratched CDs.
