Hi,
I've seen there is already a post about it on the forum, but it didn't gave me the answer to my problem.
When I got my CD104, the disc height screw had already been turned by someone. So the player couldn't read only short CD, not much more than 65 to 70 min, depending on the CD. Several years ago, I've adjusted this screw anticlockwise, and the CDM1 worked much better. It could read most of my 79 min CDs, even CDRs (not perfectly, but that was not bad). But it didn't last for a long time
. Now, I'm back to the original situation. Even worse: 60minn no more... And the solution is not as simple as described in the other post. There is one good position per turn of this screw (otherwise, the rotor is stuck), but amongst these good positions, only ONE is the right one (= the right height)! I've removed the whole motor and cleaned the screw, and when reinstalling the thing I've seen the position of the magnet ring is very important. I cant see any solution. Sometimes though, this CDM1 accepts to read long CDs, but the next day it won't!! It makes me a bit mad. So my CD104 sleeps in the cellar, as I can't use it. Then I don't know why people hate CDM2 so much!
It seems several people have met the problem, but what solution would cure it?
Thanks,
Henri
I've seen there is already a post about it on the forum, but it didn't gave me the answer to my problem.
When I got my CD104, the disc height screw had already been turned by someone. So the player couldn't read only short CD, not much more than 65 to 70 min, depending on the CD. Several years ago, I've adjusted this screw anticlockwise, and the CDM1 worked much better. It could read most of my 79 min CDs, even CDRs (not perfectly, but that was not bad). But it didn't last for a long time
. Now, I'm back to the original situation. Even worse: 60minn no more... And the solution is not as simple as described in the other post. There is one good position per turn of this screw (otherwise, the rotor is stuck), but amongst these good positions, only ONE is the right one (= the right height)! I've removed the whole motor and cleaned the screw, and when reinstalling the thing I've seen the position of the magnet ring is very important. I cant see any solution. Sometimes though, this CDM1 accepts to read long CDs, but the next day it won't!! It makes me a bit mad. So my CD104 sleeps in the cellar, as I can't use it. Then I don't know why people hate CDM2 so much! It seems several people have met the problem, but what solution would cure it?
Thanks,
Henri
Attachments
Hello Henry,
altering the spindle height will affect the trackability, for sure.
However it seems to me you are concentrating all your efforts on one solution to the symptoms!
My exeperience with CDM0 and 1 is that they are very well made, and that often it's the electronics that are to blame.
I guess you have replaced all the electolytic capacitors on the CDM itself?
Also, not reading long play discs would point me to suspect the 'swing arm' itself, and it's not unusual (after 25 years) for the pivot to need lubrication. (I use LHM from Citroen) only verysmall amount with a cotton 'ear' bud.
If you can use an oscilloscope, check the 'eye pattern' is at least 1volt p/p. Test with the worst playing CD, and adjust cautiously.
Personally, I turn off the player and turn the adjuster with a plastic screwdriver, then turn on again and check. Very small movements.
Cheers
Philippe
altering the spindle height will affect the trackability, for sure.
However it seems to me you are concentrating all your efforts on one solution to the symptoms!
My exeperience with CDM0 and 1 is that they are very well made, and that often it's the electronics that are to blame.
I guess you have replaced all the electolytic capacitors on the CDM itself?
Also, not reading long play discs would point me to suspect the 'swing arm' itself, and it's not unusual (after 25 years) for the pivot to need lubrication. (I use LHM from Citroen)
only verysmall amount with a cotton 'ear' bud.If you can use an oscilloscope, check the 'eye pattern' is at least 1volt p/p. Test with the worst playing CD, and adjust cautiously.
Personally, I turn off the player and turn the adjuster with a plastic screwdriver, then turn on again and check. Very small movements.
Cheers
Philippe
Hi Philippe,
Thank you for your help.
Yes, I've changed all electrolytics. I'll have a look at the arm, even if it seems to swing well (and I should point out that this player spent more than 7 lazy years in my friend's attic because of the griplets fault), at least as well as my CDM2's.
LOL I would never have thought of that LHM oil!
Your remark about the eye pattern is interestingand may be the solution. The pots are still "factory adjusted". But one thing changed on the servo board. Several years ago, looking for a solution to the incredible symptoms (caused by the griplets), I've damaged several prints and chip resistors in the focus circuit. I've replaced the chip resistor with normal resistors. By the way, I've seen it's extremely sensitive, because I had slightly changed a resistor value (something like 4.5 to 4.7, no more!) as I couldn't find the right resistance in my "scrapeyard". The effect was funny: the focus was always late (or the contrary!). Now the values are correct, but the eye pattern adjustment may save the day... But where is the pot on the CDM1 PCB? And do you think I can try to perform this adjustment without oscilloscope? (lol I don't want to spend another afternoon turning pots and screws in vain!)
Henri
Thank you for your help.
Yes, I've changed all electrolytics. I'll have a look at the arm, even if it seems to swing well (and I should point out that this player spent more than 7 lazy years in my friend's attic because of the griplets fault), at least as well as my CDM2's.
LOL I would never have thought of that LHM oil!
Your remark about the eye pattern is interestingand may be the solution. The pots are still "factory adjusted". But one thing changed on the servo board. Several years ago, looking for a solution to the incredible symptoms (caused by the griplets), I've damaged several prints and chip resistors in the focus circuit. I've replaced the chip resistor with normal resistors. By the way, I've seen it's extremely sensitive, because I had slightly changed a resistor value (something like 4.5 to 4.7, no more!) as I couldn't find the right resistance in my "scrapeyard". The effect was funny: the focus was always late (or the contrary!). Now the values are correct, but the eye pattern adjustment may save the day... But where is the pot on the CDM1 PCB? And do you think I can try to perform this adjustment without oscilloscope? (lol I don't want to spend another afternoon turning pots and screws in vain!)
Henri
Hello Henry,
hum, seven years idle...I think that is enough reson for the stiff pivot. All mechanical things only benefit from use.
For the adjustment. But I warn you, I would not attempt this 'blind' myself.
When you view the CDM1 from the botom, looking at the circuit board, the board is shaped like a 'U".
The laser pot is the one on the right, nearest the foil/film connector to the arm.
clockwise is less, anticlockwise is more.
Good luck, but please don't try with the unit 'live' as a 'sratchy' pot may destroy the diode.
again good luck...
If you think I don't know, look at my avatar
Philippe
hum, seven years idle...I think that is enough reson for the stiff pivot. All mechanical things only benefit from use.
For the adjustment. But I warn you, I would not attempt this 'blind' myself.
When you view the CDM1 from the botom, looking at the circuit board, the board is shaped like a 'U".
The laser pot is the one on the right, nearest the foil/film connector to the arm.
clockwise is less, anticlockwise is more.
Good luck, but please don't try with the unit 'live' as a 'sratchy' pot may destroy the diode.
again good luck...
If you think I don't know, look at my avatar
Philippe
Hi Philippe,
This pot actually modifies the laser voltage, if I'm not wrong...? I've checked the voltage (following a method explained on this forum, which is close to the one mentionned in the 104 manual), it's exactly 500mV. I could maybe increase it slightly (not more than 550 mV!). There is probably an English formula which deals with being careful. I don't know it, but "precaution" and "stop" exist in both languages
Thank you for your help and advices. I don't know what I'll do yet.
Henri
This pot actually modifies the laser voltage, if I'm not wrong...? I've checked the voltage (following a method explained on this forum, which is close to the one mentionned in the 104 manual), it's exactly 500mV. I could maybe increase it slightly (not more than 550 mV!). There is probably an English formula which deals with being careful. I don't know it, but "precaution" and "stop" exist in both languages
Thank you for your help and advices. I don't know what I'll do yet.
Henri
Hi again,
I've tried to adjust the pot this afternoon. I noticed the voltage was rather low on this 3308 resistor (around 430mV). But after reaching 550mV, the situation was still the same. I'll give up for a while. The most appropriate word to describe that player is the nice French five letter word (four letters only in English).
But anyhow thanks for your advices, the laser is still alive (and the pot back to its "factory setting").
Henri
I've tried to adjust the pot this afternoon. I noticed the voltage was rather low on this 3308 resistor (around 430mV). But after reaching 550mV, the situation was still the same. I'll give up for a while. The most appropriate word to describe that player is the nice French five letter word (four letters only in English).
But anyhow thanks for your advices, the laser is still alive (and the pot back to its "factory setting").
Henri
How rude of me!
You beautiful people!
I want to apologize for not-introducing myself to You properly.
I was always compelled to get to the core of things so much that I forget my manners.
I am glad that there is a group of people passionately working on solving all kinds of audio problems and learning a great deal in the process.
I would like to bring up (for some people in the forum) an issue of - not being so mechanical and high tech about music! Keep a human perspective and you'll find the way through to your goals.
Talking about human ... Anybody knows why the Philips LHH2000 professional CD-player works so damn good even with TDA1540Ps! I seriously wonder!
Can the principle be applied to CD104 and such?
(By the way, does anybody have service manual for CD104 lying around HDD so it can be shipped to me?)
Thanx a bunch!
P.S.
Recently survived an epiphany of building and witnessing a capacitorless speaker crossover (induced by The Acoustic Reality) in my Klipsch Cornwall II clone. Strong stuff, believe me! You should expose yourself to this kind of experience and see - what your CD-format can do for you and not what you (always) must do for your CD-format.
You beautiful people!
I want to apologize for not-introducing myself to You properly.
I was always compelled to get to the core of things so much that I forget my manners.
I am glad that there is a group of people passionately working on solving all kinds of audio problems and learning a great deal in the process.
I would like to bring up (for some people in the forum) an issue of - not being so mechanical and high tech about music! Keep a human perspective and you'll find the way through to your goals.
Talking about human ... Anybody knows why the Philips LHH2000 professional CD-player works so damn good even with TDA1540Ps! I seriously wonder!
Can the principle be applied to CD104 and such?
(By the way, does anybody have service manual for CD104 lying around HDD so it can be shipped to me?)
Thanx a bunch!
P.S.
Recently survived an epiphany of building and witnessing a capacitorless speaker crossover (induced by The Acoustic Reality) in my Klipsch Cornwall II clone. Strong stuff, believe me! You should expose yourself to this kind of experience and see - what your CD-format can do for you and not what you (always) must do for your CD-format.
dsmiljanic,
Welcome!
I focussed on the supply voltages, as you suggested, on my noise ridden CD204 decorderboard. At one of the DAC's the voltages on pin 15,16 and 17 were way off.
I managed to trace it down to the 2,7K R between pin 10 & 11. (-18V rail)
So here we go: CD204 #2 up and running, just great for a unit that looks as if it just came new out of the box, instead of 22 years ago. Talking about quality.
This is one player that will never ever leave from here....
Cheers guys!
Welcome!
I focussed on the supply voltages, as you suggested, on my noise ridden CD204 decorderboard. At one of the DAC's the voltages on pin 15,16 and 17 were way off.
I managed to trace it down to the 2,7K R between pin 10 & 11. (-18V rail)
So here we go: CD204 #2 up and running, just great for a unit that looks as if it just came new out of the box, instead of 22 years ago. Talking about quality.
This is one player that will never ever leave from here....
Cheers guys!
hi el_will.. were you selling the modified philips CD player tonight on eBay?
I almost bid on it.. but decided i didn't need any more old hifi and I should learn about electronics myself and modify my own players, such as the CD104!
Your ads look very good and I was very tempted to bid and listed to one. I love these old philips players.
adrian
I almost bid on it.. but decided i didn't need any more old hifi and I should learn about electronics myself and modify my own players, such as the CD104!
Your ads look very good and I was very tempted to bid and listed to one. I love these old philips players.
adrian
Youre better off learning how to mod your own player, much more of a challenge.
The modded players get put on the board because lots of people want to try a NOS cd player but do not know how to do the mod themselves.
It is also a nice way of passing on the players that seem to have a habit of piling up at my house.
The modded players get put on the board because lots of people want to try a NOS cd player but do not know how to do the mod themselves.
It is also a nice way of passing on the players that seem to have a habit of piling up at my house.
clipping!!!
Guys, I need your experience here!
Just discovered (by oscilloscope) that my CD104 is clipping the 0dB-signal at 1kHz (full signal, played from a test disc) and keeping it at 1,7V and not cca. 2V, if I measured it correctly. Good measurement or not it's clipping ...
Please, guide me to the solution!
I'm not very familiar with the service manual yet so I couldn't deduct it myself.
Is it the laser head that the owner before me messed up or some analogue trimming that can be executed.
HELP
Guys, I need your experience here!
Just discovered (by oscilloscope) that my CD104 is clipping the 0dB-signal at 1kHz (full signal, played from a test disc) and keeping it at 1,7V and not cca. 2V, if I measured it correctly. Good measurement or not it's clipping ...
Please, guide me to the solution!
I'm not very familiar with the service manual yet so I couldn't deduct it myself.
Is it the laser head that the owner before me messed up or some analogue trimming that can be executed.
HELP
I'm ashamed
False alarm!
There's nothing wrong with the output at 0dB! No clipping just a hangover from a concert day before and an attenuation at soundcard's input. And in that disposition you forget elementary Physics which says 1,7V RMS represents 2,2V p-p!
Thank you for your patience. (Therapist: "I think we made quite a breakthrough today!" (tears, applause, coffee time))
False alarm!
There's nothing wrong with the output at 0dB! No clipping just a hangover from a concert day before and an attenuation at soundcard's input. And in that disposition you forget elementary Physics which says 1,7V RMS represents 2,2V p-p!
Thank you for your patience. (Therapist: "I think we made quite a breakthrough today!" (tears, applause, coffee time))
Newsflash!
I beefed up the power supply of my CD104 as a Phase One!
Everything settled nicely, sibilants cleared as well as percussion transients. There's deeper blackness in the picture where there's noone. Sound spectrum is more linear.
Every device got enogh energy so there's no more fight for power. It's the old rule of electric devices - strongest consumer has the power priority in low-energy-resource environment. You could hear it as a musician performing live and some light-guy plugs his 20 kW moving-head chain before your amps plug and you end up in lack of amperes and consequently weak sound from your rig. In CD104 I cannot point my finger which device takes up most power.
Next Phase is inducing chokes in PS in existing PCB which will be mighty hard task. Maybe I should build a completely new PCB.
See you! Extensive forensic listenning session in progress!
I beefed up the power supply of my CD104 as a Phase One!
Everything settled nicely, sibilants cleared as well as percussion transients. There's deeper blackness in the picture where there's noone. Sound spectrum is more linear.
Every device got enogh energy so there's no more fight for power. It's the old rule of electric devices - strongest consumer has the power priority in low-energy-resource environment. You could hear it as a musician performing live and some light-guy plugs his 20 kW moving-head chain before your amps plug and you end up in lack of amperes and consequently weak sound from your rig. In CD104 I cannot point my finger which device takes up most power.
Next Phase is inducing chokes in PS in existing PCB which will be mighty hard task. Maybe I should build a completely new PCB.
See you! Extensive forensic listenning session in progress!
Of course!
Let me prepare it fully because there's a limit to attachment size + I have a gig tomorrow so I can be swift about it.
Will do it as quick as I can but this Phase One is not so unusual. Just changing all of the regulators, beefing up the caps a resoldering all around.
Phase Two will be a honey introducing chokes and more caps (maybe going MKS or MKP as the real tube buffs do) and impedance compensation (R-C-members) at the end of each power branch.
There will be photos, oh yes, there will be photos ...
Let me prepare it fully because there's a limit to attachment size + I have a gig tomorrow so I can be swift about it.
Will do it as quick as I can but this Phase One is not so unusual. Just changing all of the regulators, beefing up the caps a resoldering all around.
Phase Two will be a honey introducing chokes and more caps (maybe going MKS or MKP as the real tube buffs do) and impedance compensation (R-C-members) at the end of each power branch.
There will be photos, oh yes, there will be photos ...
Now that my CD104 is back to live again I've decided to start with the improvements Starting with the PSU, I've done the following:
1. Brand new caps
2. By-passed every single electrolytic cap with good quality MKS 100n/100V (wima)
3. Galvanic insulation between the v-reg's using micas(as described early in this thread)
4. Replaced all the diodes with ultra-fast BYV26C
This gave some more bass presence and a bit more detailed high frequencies.
to do list:
1. replacing all the interstage wires with ticker ones and shielding them.
2. Placing some chokes here and there
Starting with the PSU, I've done the following:1. Brand new caps
2. By-passed every single electrolytic cap with good quality MKS 100n/100V (wima)
3. Galvanic insulation between the v-reg's using micas(as described early in this thread)
4. Replaced all the diodes with ultra-fast BYV26C
This gave some more bass presence and a bit more detailed high frequencies.
to do list:
1. replacing all the interstage wires with ticker ones and shielding them.
2. Placing some chokes here and there
See: "Capacitors as Power Supply "Bypassing" Elements" at
http://www.williamson-labs.com/480_rlc-c.htm
http://www.williamson-labs.com/480_rlc-c.htm