Forget my previous post. I was tired.
Anyway. Seems like I might have solved the PSX problem. Too early to tell.
Somebody might remember that I referred to my Herbie Hancock Head Hunters CD as a "problem CD." The fourth track stutters on both my PSX and DVD player. When you skip tracks, the laser has problem finding the beginning of the fourth track. Often it starts 45 seconds in! Those 45 seconds have proven to be a challenge for both players--stuttering and skipping long parts.
MAYBE it's fixed. I adjusted the laser intensity. 11.8mV doesn't work on my PSX. Maybe it's the CDM. It's from another model. Whatever the case, after trying other settings, it looks like the PSX now reads the fourth track without stuttering. I still get the impression the PSX struggles with the track. I can hear this clicking sound from the CDM.
Anyway. Seems like I might have solved the PSX problem. Too early to tell.
Somebody might remember that I referred to my Herbie Hancock Head Hunters CD as a "problem CD." The fourth track stutters on both my PSX and DVD player. When you skip tracks, the laser has problem finding the beginning of the fourth track. Often it starts 45 seconds in! Those 45 seconds have proven to be a challenge for both players--stuttering and skipping long parts.
MAYBE it's fixed. I adjusted the laser intensity. 11.8mV doesn't work on my PSX. Maybe it's the CDM. It's from another model. Whatever the case, after trying other settings, it looks like the PSX now reads the fourth track without stuttering. I still get the impression the PSX struggles with the track. I can hear this clicking sound from the CDM.
This is an excerpt from a PlayStation FAQ, the way gamers see it.
3.) PSX/PS1 MODEL NUMBERS:
This is a breakdown of the PSX's "version history". It is a listing of
all of the model numbers and the various problems associated with them. In chronological order, starting from the top (oldest).
For the record, "skipping" means mis-reads during music or FMV causing the sound or video to 'skip' frames. "Read Errors" refer to the PSX 'freezing', or not loading certain gameplay sections. Read on, young grasshopper:
SCPH-100x
The first PlayStation built, the launch of the system was tainted by
the 100xs overheating after 40 minutes to an hour. If played for too long, this heat can build up to levels so high, they can melt and deform the laser on the disk read assembly. This model skips so much nowadays that it is probably better left shelved, both to avoid damage, and because you should have a newer model if you want to play for more than 40 minutes at a time.
SCPH-300x
With the second-gen redesign of the PSX, Sony opted to relocate the laser assembly to combat the heat buildup issue. It had a marginal effect. This model will skip and have read errors, but not anywhere near as much as a 100x. If you have one of these, perhaps it's time you started thinking about getting a newer version...
SCPH-500x/550x
Ahhh... Now we are getting into the realm of more dependable PSX models. The SCPH-500x/550x model rarely has any skipping or read errors as long as your disks are relatively free of smudges and scratches. They can be played for extended periods with only marginal heat buildup. This info is only as current as this writing, however, so within the next few years, these models will almost definatly start to have issues as their internal components degrade.
SCPH-700x
No real update over the 500x series, except for the newer materials mean it has a longer service life.
SCPH-750x
The last model number PSX produced with the Parallel I/O port on the back. If having a GameShark, external modchip, external VCD card, or MP3 juke-box type add-in are important to you, this is the model number you want to own. Almost flawless in terms of skipping and read errors. This happens to be the model PSX that I own, in case you cared.
SCPH-900x
The epitomy of PSX models. The parellel I/O port was removed to make the console cheaper to manufacture for an impending price
drop. Skipping and read errors on this model are extremely few and far between. If the removal of the parellel I/O port by SCEA doesn't bother you, this is a good model number to have. Especially if you don't want to buy a "cutesy" PS1.
SCPH-10x (PS1)
Sony completely re-designed the PSX to make it 2/3 smaller. The PSX has an internal board that converts the 120v from the wall to the 8-8.5v that the PSX needs to operate. The PS1's AC cable does this externally (that is why the cable has that fat box at the wall end), and converts the 120v into 7.5v for the PS1. If you want to play PS1 games, and can't afford a PS2, or, if you want to play PS1 games mobile, then this is the system you want. If you have skipping or read errors on a PS1, it's almost surely a scratched or smudged disk.
3.) PSX/PS1 MODEL NUMBERS:
This is a breakdown of the PSX's "version history". It is a listing of
all of the model numbers and the various problems associated with them. In chronological order, starting from the top (oldest).
For the record, "skipping" means mis-reads during music or FMV causing the sound or video to 'skip' frames. "Read Errors" refer to the PSX 'freezing', or not loading certain gameplay sections. Read on, young grasshopper:
SCPH-100x
The first PlayStation built, the launch of the system was tainted by
the 100xs overheating after 40 minutes to an hour. If played for too long, this heat can build up to levels so high, they can melt and deform the laser on the disk read assembly. This model skips so much nowadays that it is probably better left shelved, both to avoid damage, and because you should have a newer model if you want to play for more than 40 minutes at a time.
SCPH-300x
With the second-gen redesign of the PSX, Sony opted to relocate the laser assembly to combat the heat buildup issue. It had a marginal effect. This model will skip and have read errors, but not anywhere near as much as a 100x. If you have one of these, perhaps it's time you started thinking about getting a newer version...
SCPH-500x/550x
Ahhh... Now we are getting into the realm of more dependable PSX models. The SCPH-500x/550x model rarely has any skipping or read errors as long as your disks are relatively free of smudges and scratches. They can be played for extended periods with only marginal heat buildup. This info is only as current as this writing, however, so within the next few years, these models will almost definatly start to have issues as their internal components degrade.
SCPH-700x
No real update over the 500x series, except for the newer materials mean it has a longer service life.
SCPH-750x
The last model number PSX produced with the Parallel I/O port on the back. If having a GameShark, external modchip, external VCD card, or MP3 juke-box type add-in are important to you, this is the model number you want to own. Almost flawless in terms of skipping and read errors. This happens to be the model PSX that I own, in case you cared.
SCPH-900x
The epitomy of PSX models. The parellel I/O port was removed to make the console cheaper to manufacture for an impending price
drop. Skipping and read errors on this model are extremely few and far between. If the removal of the parellel I/O port by SCEA doesn't bother you, this is a good model number to have. Especially if you don't want to buy a "cutesy" PS1.
SCPH-10x (PS1)
Sony completely re-designed the PSX to make it 2/3 smaller. The PSX has an internal board that converts the 120v from the wall to the 8-8.5v that the PSX needs to operate. The PS1's AC cable does this externally (that is why the cable has that fat box at the wall end), and converts the 120v into 7.5v for the PS1. If you want to play PS1 games, and can't afford a PS2, or, if you want to play PS1 games mobile, then this is the system you want. If you have skipping or read errors on a PS1, it's almost surely a scratched or smudged disk.
"SCPH-100x
The first PlayStation built, the launch of the system was tainted by
the 100xs overheating after 40 minutes to an hour. If played for too long, this heat can build up to levels so high, they can melt and deform the laser on the disk read assembly. This model skips so much nowadays that it is probably better left shelved, both to avoid damage, and because you should have a newer model if you want to play for more than 40 minutes at a time."
I'd guess also that the overheating is partly due to intensive graphics rendering. When used as a CD player, most of the circuitry is idle I'd imagine. Anyone had freezes due to extended periods of CD playing ?
The first PlayStation built, the launch of the system was tainted by
the 100xs overheating after 40 minutes to an hour. If played for too long, this heat can build up to levels so high, they can melt and deform the laser on the disk read assembly. This model skips so much nowadays that it is probably better left shelved, both to avoid damage, and because you should have a newer model if you want to play for more than 40 minutes at a time."
I'd guess also that the overheating is partly due to intensive graphics rendering. When used as a CD player, most of the circuitry is idle I'd imagine. Anyone had freezes due to extended periods of CD playing ?
There's no 3001 or 3002. The Japanese 3000 became 1001 and 1002. The Japanese 1000 has an S-Video port as well as RCAs.
The consoles given to developers look pretty cool.
http://assembler.roarvgm.com/Euro_playstation_developer_uni/euro_playstation_developer_uni.html
I guess now everybody wants one.
The consoles given to developers look pretty cool.
http://assembler.roarvgm.com/Euro_playstation_developer_uni/euro_playstation_developer_uni.html
I guess now everybody wants one.
I was curious if anybody has done a tube stage directly off this cd player's DAC chip?
I recently had a Sony cd player die on me that Steve Deckert did. It was a mass produced DVP 685 in which he did a tube stage directly off the DAC chip. He used a cheap AES P-T442 transformer and ran a 12__7 dual triode series tube. The unit had polyester caps (Tracon) going directly off the chip into the tube socket. I am assuming these were DC blocker caps that Mick took photo's of.(Wima 3.3 uF) I don't know much about this stuff.
Anyways the unit sounded great. It had great bass but also had a very lively presence to it and realistic midrange. It had 3.5 volts of output and had wonderful dynamics.
Here is a picture of the Tracon polyester caps coming off the chip:
The caps are difficult to see in this photograph but they are dark olive green. The red and white wires are from the caps to the tube socket. Here is another picture of the tube socket now. He used 3.3 uF Solen Fast caps to the RCA output jacks.
This is what I am planning to do. The problem is that I don't have enough experience in choosing resistors to get the plate curves close before final voicing tweaks. So if anybody would like to go along for the ride with me, perhaps we can share ideas and enjoy a cheap, dynamic and very musical, vinyl like sounding cd player!
So with that said, I will start the next post with what I envision!
I recently had a Sony cd player die on me that Steve Deckert did. It was a mass produced DVP 685 in which he did a tube stage directly off the DAC chip. He used a cheap AES P-T442 transformer and ran a 12__7 dual triode series tube. The unit had polyester caps (Tracon) going directly off the chip into the tube socket. I am assuming these were DC blocker caps that Mick took photo's of.(Wima 3.3 uF) I don't know much about this stuff.
Anyways the unit sounded great. It had great bass but also had a very lively presence to it and realistic midrange. It had 3.5 volts of output and had wonderful dynamics.
Here is a picture of the Tracon polyester caps coming off the chip:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The caps are difficult to see in this photograph but they are dark olive green. The red and white wires are from the caps to the tube socket. Here is another picture of the tube socket now. He used 3.3 uF Solen Fast caps to the RCA output jacks.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This is what I am planning to do. The problem is that I don't have enough experience in choosing resistors to get the plate curves close before final voicing tweaks. So if anybody would like to go along for the ride with me, perhaps we can share ideas and enjoy a cheap, dynamic and very musical, vinyl like sounding cd player!
So with that said, I will start the next post with what I envision!
Okay, the bottom line here is cash. I have read most of this thread and at one point it came up why one would want to use an ugly Playstation for a cd player? Well, because you can buy one for $20 buddy!
Now don't get me wrong, I spent a fair amount of money on my amp and speakers but things have changed in my life and I just can't afford to spend $700-$1000 on a cd player. Nor am I happy with hooking up a free piece of garbage and getting a tizzy, flat, dead sound. I might as well sell my amp and speakers, buy a boombox, and use the rest of the money to fix up my bathroom.
Basically, I am a broke music lover now. But, have learned a bit about electronics and tube gear in the past few years so I believe this project is about at my knowledge/skill level.
So let's get started:
Sony PS1 VB
BTW, the VB stands for "valve buffer"
First off, I want to thank Mick F. for inspiring me to get into this. Before I even found this thread, I found his site and was really impressed by his pictures etc. Thumbs up Mick
I guess I should first share my experience. I haven't heard a 1001 yet. When I bought my 9001 I had no idea there were differences in the PS1 models. One thing I will say is the 9001 sounds very bad with the cheap AV out RCA jacks. I took the unit apart and was going to tap the circuit board before the AV port but then decided that it really isn't worth messing around and risk shorting something out just to gain an inch. I checked out Micks website and saw his homebrew AV port male plug but wanted something a bit more rugged.
I decided to look further into the stock Sony AV port plug. This is the AV plug that converts into RCA jacks. I took a bench grinder and very carefully ground into the plug itself. I am talking about the hard black plastic part. I got through that and ripped it off. I was then left with the silver square metal part that terminates into a crimp for the RCA grounds. There is no ground wires coming from the AV pins in this male plug. The entire metal housing is the ground. There is only red, white and yellow wires which are all positives. That makes it real easy. Just run the red and white wires to your RCA jack + and run grounds from the metal crimp.
That left me with the RCA jacks themselves. I wanted the female jacks as close to the unit as possible so I could cut off the red/white wires coming from the AV plug as short as possible.
I decided to remove the spring loaded disc cover because that protrudes all the way to the back and prevents mounting of anything directly to the chassis. This allowed me room to work with. I cut a Hammond project box in half:
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/629/1583.pdf
I then cut little slits about 3/8" into the box sides to clear the lip that runs along the back of the Sony. This allowed me to mount the box to the back of the unit and gives it some stability.
I drilled a second hole in the chassis and ran a ground wire to the circuit board and stared it with the RCA ground on the crimp of the AV plug. This gives the cd player a ground through the RCA jacks until I re-mount the power supply board in a seperate box.
Corey
Now don't get me wrong, I spent a fair amount of money on my amp and speakers but things have changed in my life and I just can't afford to spend $700-$1000 on a cd player. Nor am I happy with hooking up a free piece of garbage and getting a tizzy, flat, dead sound. I might as well sell my amp and speakers, buy a boombox, and use the rest of the money to fix up my bathroom.
Basically, I am a broke music lover now. But, have learned a bit about electronics and tube gear in the past few years so I believe this project is about at my knowledge/skill level.
So let's get started:
Sony PS1 VB
BTW, the VB stands for "valve buffer"
First off, I want to thank Mick F. for inspiring me to get into this. Before I even found this thread, I found his site and was really impressed by his pictures etc. Thumbs up Mick
I guess I should first share my experience. I haven't heard a 1001 yet. When I bought my 9001 I had no idea there were differences in the PS1 models. One thing I will say is the 9001 sounds very bad with the cheap AV out RCA jacks. I took the unit apart and was going to tap the circuit board before the AV port but then decided that it really isn't worth messing around and risk shorting something out just to gain an inch. I checked out Micks website and saw his homebrew AV port male plug but wanted something a bit more rugged.
I decided to look further into the stock Sony AV port plug. This is the AV plug that converts into RCA jacks. I took a bench grinder and very carefully ground into the plug itself. I am talking about the hard black plastic part. I got through that and ripped it off. I was then left with the silver square metal part that terminates into a crimp for the RCA grounds. There is no ground wires coming from the AV pins in this male plug. The entire metal housing is the ground. There is only red, white and yellow wires which are all positives. That makes it real easy. Just run the red and white wires to your RCA jack + and run grounds from the metal crimp.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
That left me with the RCA jacks themselves. I wanted the female jacks as close to the unit as possible so I could cut off the red/white wires coming from the AV plug as short as possible.
I decided to remove the spring loaded disc cover because that protrudes all the way to the back and prevents mounting of anything directly to the chassis. This allowed me room to work with. I cut a Hammond project box in half:
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/629/1583.pdf
I then cut little slits about 3/8" into the box sides to clear the lip that runs along the back of the Sony. This allowed me to mount the box to the back of the unit and gives it some stability.
I drilled a second hole in the chassis and ran a ground wire to the circuit board and stared it with the RCA ground on the crimp of the AV plug. This gives the cd player a ground through the RCA jacks until I re-mount the power supply board in a seperate box.
Corey
Here is a picture of my unit with my installed RCA jacks. The interconnects are MAC Braided IC's and sound absolutely amazing for digital sources:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue21/mac.htm
The length of the wires from the metal port plug to the jacks is a tad over an inch. When I want to take the top off I simply unplug the port male and it nicely comes with the cover.
I forgot to ask a couple more questions.
In looking at the data sheet for the AKM4309B chip:
http://www.tranzistoare.ro/datasheets/105/136972_DS.pdf
I see pins 11/12 are the analog outs(AOUTR, AOUTL)
In going down further it writes this:
"The analog outputs are also single-ended and centered around
the VCOM voltage. The output signal range is typically 3.4v pp. AC coupling capacitors of larger than 1 uF are recommended"
Are the 3.3uF WIMA's that Mick used the "coupling capacitors" they speak of here?
Does this also mean that if I do a 12AV7 in a simple cathode follower circuit I am basically going to get around 3 volts of low impedance output? The reason I ask is because my amp uses an SRPP input stage and needs around 3 volts to hit full power so I was wanting 3 volts.
I am going to relocate the power supply of the PS1 within the same box that I do the tube stage in. I will run sheilded cables from the chip into this box. Install an IEC into the box to feed the PS! board and tube stage transformer. The only mods I am going to do to the PS1 power supply board is change the 4 diodes off the AC mains input and the large cap there as well. I have decided to put my money into the tube stage power supply and tube stage signal components like good quality audiophile resistors.
If possible I would like to use poly. caps for the tube stage power supply. Eddie Vaughn used these in my 2A3 and even though they are close to the size of a small fist, they sound exceptional. I was hoping to use ASC oil caps if I can get the right values for this application.
Is a CRC filter the best for this purpose.
The power supply that Deckert did for my dead Sony tube stage consisted of (2) Ruby Gold caps strapped together with a large grey resistor. I am not sure what this type of filter is called but the value of the caps were 33 uF, 450 volts. The grey resistor had either 3 orange stripes and 1 gold one or vice versa.
Corey
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue21/mac.htm
The length of the wires from the metal port plug to the jacks is a tad over an inch. When I want to take the top off I simply unplug the port male and it nicely comes with the cover.
I forgot to ask a couple more questions.
In looking at the data sheet for the AKM4309B chip:
http://www.tranzistoare.ro/datasheets/105/136972_DS.pdf
I see pins 11/12 are the analog outs(AOUTR, AOUTL)
In going down further it writes this:
"The analog outputs are also single-ended and centered around
the VCOM voltage. The output signal range is typically 3.4v pp. AC coupling capacitors of larger than 1 uF are recommended"
Are the 3.3uF WIMA's that Mick used the "coupling capacitors" they speak of here?
Does this also mean that if I do a 12AV7 in a simple cathode follower circuit I am basically going to get around 3 volts of low impedance output? The reason I ask is because my amp uses an SRPP input stage and needs around 3 volts to hit full power so I was wanting 3 volts.
I am going to relocate the power supply of the PS1 within the same box that I do the tube stage in. I will run sheilded cables from the chip into this box. Install an IEC into the box to feed the PS! board and tube stage transformer. The only mods I am going to do to the PS1 power supply board is change the 4 diodes off the AC mains input and the large cap there as well. I have decided to put my money into the tube stage power supply and tube stage signal components like good quality audiophile resistors.
If possible I would like to use poly. caps for the tube stage power supply. Eddie Vaughn used these in my 2A3 and even though they are close to the size of a small fist, they sound exceptional. I was hoping to use ASC oil caps if I can get the right values for this application.
Is a CRC filter the best for this purpose.
The power supply that Deckert did for my dead Sony tube stage consisted of (2) Ruby Gold caps strapped together with a large grey resistor. I am not sure what this type of filter is called but the value of the caps were 33 uF, 450 volts. The grey resistor had either 3 orange stripes and 1 gold one or vice versa.
Corey
I'm no tube guru. Now that's out of the way.
The 12AV7 has a mu of 41. The PSX has an output of 1.2Vmrs. And that's the boring thing with the PSX, it has voltage and not ampere out.
A more flexible mid-high mu noval is the 6DJ8/ECC88. It has a mu of 33.
http://giaime.altervista.org/mypreamp_eng.html
Edit: Posted at the same time. Corey, nice. Now I'm going to bed.
The 12AV7 has a mu of 41. The PSX has an output of 1.2Vmrs. And that's the boring thing with the PSX, it has voltage and not ampere out.
A more flexible mid-high mu noval is the 6DJ8/ECC88. It has a mu of 33.
http://giaime.altervista.org/mypreamp_eng.html
Edit: Posted at the same time. Corey, nice. Now I'm going to bed.
Corey,
Are you looking at using one of these circuits:
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/xentar/1179/theory/vasfda/vasfda.html
from this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-31573.html
?
9anda1f
Are you looking at using one of these circuits:
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/xentar/1179/theory/vasfda/vasfda.html
from this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-31573.html
?
9anda1f
Hi all,
I'm new here and have no DIY experience. Just bought a 1001 machine that was "repaired" for inability to read discs (only the playstation logo would play, apparently). It works now, but now I'm concerned that the repair may have involved replacing original 1001 parts with lesser parts that would affect sound quality. How can I tell if all the parts are original 1001 parts, and what makes them better than subsequent models? Thanks for the help.
I'm new here and have no DIY experience. Just bought a 1001 machine that was "repaired" for inability to read discs (only the playstation logo would play, apparently). It works now, but now I'm concerned that the repair may have involved replacing original 1001 parts with lesser parts that would affect sound quality. How can I tell if all the parts are original 1001 parts, and what makes them better than subsequent models? Thanks for the help.
Corey, interesting piece of work you are projecting here. I must confess, however, that I am a bit sceptical about tube output stages because the main effect they will have is to give a coloration ("warm" aka second harmonic distortions) to the sound. Pure linear amplification of the signal could be done by the power amp as well, since the output level is only about 20% lower than that of an average CD player. If you, however, prefer like this kind of sound, it is certainly a good idea to install a tube stage. I personally prefer to have an as uncolorized, i.e. as natural as possible sound, including as few amplifications stages as possible.
As to you question: the coupling caps mentioned in the datasheet (>1uF) are the 3.3uF Wimas I used.
One thing I should mention is that if you do all the efforts planned, it may be worthwile to replace the SMPS by a linear supply as well. The improvement I gained from that modification step was substantial!
Cheers
Mick
As to you question: the coupling caps mentioned in the datasheet (>1uF) are the 3.3uF Wimas I used.
One thing I should mention is that if you do all the efforts planned, it may be worthwile to replace the SMPS by a linear supply as well. The improvement I gained from that modification step was substantial!
Cheers
Mick
Hi Corey,
as Mick already pointed out there is actually no need for a further amplification of the output signal.
If your tube power amp has a volume pot and an input impedance of at least 100k this will be fine.
I use a tube preamplifier with the very linear 12B4A triode.
It has an amplification factor of about five and very low output impedance. This sounds just perfect.
The 12AV7 has ways too much gain, you will have to apply feedback in order to reduce gain if you set up one triode system as voltage amplifier.
If you use both triode systems as a cathode followers the gain will be about 0,9 due to local feedback.
as Mick already pointed out there is actually no need for a further amplification of the output signal.
If your tube power amp has a volume pot and an input impedance of at least 100k this will be fine.
I use a tube preamplifier with the very linear 12B4A triode.
It has an amplification factor of about five and very low output impedance. This sounds just perfect.
The 12AV7 has ways too much gain, you will have to apply feedback in order to reduce gain if you set up one triode system as voltage amplifier.
If you use both triode systems as a cathode followers the gain will be about 0,9 due to local feedback.