KSS-122A and KSS-123A - Are they Interchabgeable? - Page 5 - diyAudio
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Old 22nd January 2010, 09:49 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salar View Post
The music will mask glitches. 20kHz, you will not be able to hear ( I am able to hear up to to around 16kHz), but you wil hear, when the error correction fails.
And why not putting the RF-Amp underneath, to my knowledge, all designs since the early nineties work like this? KSS-240A is one of them for sure.

Shielding would be easier, but the wires have to be very flexible...
I would say most designs, not all. Cambridge Audio's "CD-4", "Trac 1" CDT and CD-6" e. g. use SANYO's "SF-91". The OPIC there is without integrated RF-Amp. Nevertheless the RF-Signal is absolutely perfect - better than each SONY where is a KSS-240A inside !! The circuit by this Cambridge models are basicly the same than by your NAK and CDP-40. But the PCB layout was designed by CAD from developers employed by Creek and it is highly optimized.
An other good known optical pick up without integrated RF-Amp is the CDM12.1/VAM1201-1202 head.
By service on the mentioned cambridge audio models one thing was funny:
five or six devices I have found with not perfect RF-Signal; Level was normal, but some spikes are to observe, independend of the playing compact disc. After replace the laser head RF Signal was perfect again.
The reason was the used laser diode itself. Normally a 5mW/780nM long live diode from the RLD-78 series (ROHM) like this
http://www.rohm.com/products/databoo.../rld78mpa1.pdf
was inside.
By the faulty SF-91 laser heads a SONY diode without type number, but Sony's typical M-259 outline was inside - like this
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...y/a6802787.pdf
(go to last page)

In general - from all laser units that I know, Sony's laser heads above KSS-120 by far the worst of all (life time, reliability), even the models for the ESPRIT series like KSS-272A. Two main reasons are therefore responsible:
1) the suspension of the collimator lens (plastic leaf spring instead spring wire)
2) the diode itself

Obviously it can happen sometimes (fortunately not often) that other laser head manufacturers than Sony also used such worse Sony diodes. If by such older CD players the RF level very low, you can assume, that a Sony diode is inside.

By JVC-, Pioneer- and Hitachi laser heads after more than 20 years in use there are still virgin light power (after lens cleaning) and thus good level by RF signal. Also the tracking behaviour isn't impaired due collimator lens suspension without plastic.
When buying used CD players - independend of the price class - you should also make sure that is not a Sony laser inside.

Last edited by tiefbassuebertr; 22nd January 2010 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2010, 07:31 AM   #42
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Wow,
they cut corners that early...

What about the Toshiba laser heads, especially 2nd. generation OPH-32 ?
All the best,
Salar
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Old 23rd January 2010, 09:55 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salar View Post
Wow,
they cut corners that early...

What about the Toshiba laser heads, especially 2nd. generation OPH-32 ?
All the best,
Salar
the Toshiba OPH-32 is in use in very few models, e.g.
KENWOOD DP-700
KENWOOD DP-1100
LUXMAN D-102
NAD 5255
ONKYO DX-100
it was the successor of the OPH-31, as I know only in use in
ALPINE AD-7100 CX890 Toshiba OPH-31
AUREX XR-Z90 CX890 Toshiba OPH-31
KENWOOD L-03DP CX890 Toshiba OPH-31
LUXMAN DX-104 CX890 Toshiba OPH-31
Two guys I know uses the L-03DP and DP-1100 without trouble - nevertheless I must say, I haven't experience about lifetime and realibility about this laser heads respective the used diodes.

In the attachement a photo of OPH-32 - for me rather first than second generation. TOPH-7833 (Toshiba made but based on Sony technology) was second generation (similare to KSS120-123A-C)
Source for the photo:
VNAV • View topic - THAY THẾ MẮT ĐỌC CHO CDP Ở ĐÂY
Toshiba XR-Z70 - rozkrciem laser i nie dziaa.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Toshiba OPH-32.jpg (60.2 KB, 262 views)
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Old 23rd January 2010, 11:13 AM   #44
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Hello Tiefbassuebertragung!
Thank a lot for your reply.
From the Toshiba XR-Z70 Service Manual...
All the best,
Salar
Attached Images
File Type: jpg OPH-32small.jpg (183.1 KB, 242 views)
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Old 24th January 2010, 09:44 PM   #45
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiefbassuebertr View Post
I would say most designs, not all. Cambridge Audio's "CD-4", "Trac 1" CDT and CD-6" e. g. use SANYO's "SF-91". The OPIC there is without integrated RF-Amp. Nevertheless the RF-Signal is absolutely perfect - better than each SONY where is a KSS-240A inside !! The circuit by this Cambridge models are basicly the same than by your NAK and CDP-40. But the PCB layout was designed by CAD from developers employed by Creek and it is highly optimized.
An other good known optical pick up without integrated RF-Amp is the CDM12.1/VAM1201-1202 head.
By service on the mentioned cambridge audio models one thing was funny:
five or six devices I have found with not perfect RF-Signal; Level was normal, but some spikes are to observe, independend of the playing compact disc. After replace the laser head RF Signal was perfect again.
The reason was the used laser diode itself. Normally a 5mW/780nM long live diode from the RLD-78 series (ROHM) like this
http://www.rohm.com/products/databoo.../rld78mpa1.pdf
was inside.
By the faulty SF-91 laser heads a SONY diode without type number, but Sony's typical M-259 outline was inside - like this
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...y/a6802787.pdf
(go to last page)

In general - from all laser units that I know, Sony's laser heads above KSS-120 by far the worst of all (life time, reliability), even the models for the ESPRIT series like KSS-272A. Two main reasons are therefore responsible:
1) the suspension of the collimator lens (plastic leaf spring instead spring wire)
2) the diode itself

Obviously it can happen sometimes (fortunately not often) that other laser head manufacturers than Sony also used such worse Sony diodes. If by such older CD players the RF level very low, you can assume, that a Sony diode is inside.

By JVC-, Pioneer- and Hitachi laser heads after more than 20 years in use there are still virgin light power (after lens cleaning) and thus good level by RF signal. Also the tracking behaviour isn't impaired due collimator lens suspension without plastic.
When buying used CD players - independend of the price class - you should also make sure that is not a Sony laser inside.
Hello Tiefbassuebertragung,
if I was to buy a used player, which laser unit would you propose besides Sony and Philips, of course one that is still available .. .Sanyo?
Which of the newer ones are the best in your opinion?
All the best,
Salar
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Old 24th January 2010, 11:52 PM   #46
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My favorite is the CDM-3 from Philips. Still good available, because it was used also in some professional devices like Studer (Revox), Philips LHH-series and some other. Also suited for top loading concepts like Krell "CD-DSP" and "MD-1".

Also good laser head are the Hitachi HOP-M3 (inside by Linn and some Midi-Systems from DENON), the Optima Series from JVC (Sansui and JVC), the MLP-Series from Samsung (often used by Yamaha), all Pioneer laser heads and the TAOHS Series from Olympus/Mitsubishi.

Why are most of this laser units are still easy to find? Because the failure rate is significantly lower than from the series of Sony's KSS. And most of those that replaced in the service center, are not faulty.

If you have a faulty CD player, where one of this laser head inside, the reason for the failure isn't the optical pick up itself in most cases (by my service work in the last years in all cases) - except if there are dirty lens or dirty mechanical stuff inside the mechanism.

By the way - today I have found a very fine vintage compact disc player from Sansui (at least by first look - never see before):
Sansui Alpha907 and JVC "Optima 1" inside - very fine photos about this croatian URL:
www.HiFi-Forumi.com • Pogledaj temu - Sansui

Last edited by tiefbassuebertr; 25th January 2010 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 24th March 2010, 10:21 PM   #47
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by chance I have found this:
SONY KSS-123A , KSS123A Laser For DENON NEC NAKAMICHI - eBay (item 250417150382 end time Mar-27-10 14:38:47 PDT)
Item number: 250417150382 from supermanmeliu
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Old 14th April 2010, 09:08 PM   #48
pecello is offline pecello  Yugoslavia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiefbassuebertr View Post
I would say most designs, not all. Cambridge Audio's "CD-4", "Trac 1" CDT and CD-6" e. g. use SANYO's "SF-91". The OPIC there is without integrated RF-Amp. Nevertheless the RF-Signal is absolutely perfect - better than each SONY where is a KSS-240A inside !! The circuit by this Cambridge models are basicly the same than by your NAK and CDP-40. But the PCB layout was designed by CAD from developers employed by Creek and it is highly optimized.
An other good known optical pick up without integrated RF-Amp is the CDM12.1/VAM1201-1202 head.
By service on the mentioned cambridge audio models one thing was funny:
five or six devices I have found with not perfect RF-Signal; Level was normal, but some spikes are to observe, independend of the playing compact disc. After replace the laser head RF Signal was perfect again.
The reason was the used laser diode itself. Normally a 5mW/780nM long live diode from the RLD-78 series (ROHM) like this
http://www.rohm.com/products/databoo.../rld78mpa1.pdf
was inside.
By the faulty SF-91 laser heads a SONY diode without type number, but Sony's typical M-259 outline was inside - like this
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...y/a6802787.pdf
(go to last page)

In general - from all laser units that I know, Sony's laser heads above KSS-120 by far the worst of all (life time, reliability), even the models for the ESPRIT series like KSS-272A. Two main reasons are therefore responsible:
1) the suspension of the collimator lens (plastic leaf spring instead spring wire)
2) the diode itself

Obviously it can happen sometimes (fortunately not often) that other laser head manufacturers than Sony also used such worse Sony diodes. If by such older CD players the RF level very low, you can assume, that a Sony diode is inside.

By JVC-, Pioneer- and Hitachi laser heads after more than 20 years in use there are still virgin light power (after lens cleaning) and thus good level by RF signal. Also the tracking behaviour isn't impaired due collimator lens suspension without plastic.
When buying used CD players - independend of the price class - you should also make sure that is not a Sony laser inside.
Hello,please help me to find the service manual for Cambridge Audio CD4.Thanks in advance!
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Old 7th January 2011, 07:06 PM   #49
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Default KSS-123A - Yahoo Auction - new condition

This I have discover by chance:
?????????????????????????pick-up - Yahoo!??????
(auction item No: f82735239)
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Old 2nd December 2011, 02:57 PM   #50
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Default KSS-123A still available

I wonder there are still offers about this model from Sony - e. g. follow:
SONY KSS-123A , KSS123A Laser For DENON NEC NAKAMICHI | eBay

Are there any experiences concerning the quality standart with this supplier or an other?

Thank you for comments.
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