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Old 27th March 2009, 07:57 AM   #3211
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I tried another little experiment today. I switched from a highly regulated analogue supply to the dreaded Switch mode power supply. The latter was far more natural and realistic sounding. This finding is in complete contrast to what I often get with cd players, T amps and other low dc volatge requiring equipment!!!!!!!!!

I did switch back and forth on numerous occasions and got the same result.

I also removed the Trichord and went back to a standard clock out of a pioneer stable platter.I decided burn in or not i could not quite live with the Trichords leaner albeit more detailed sound.

I do feel at this stage that i am getting close to what can be achieved with this unit. Most changes make fine adjustments to a sound characteristic which remains the same overall, which is nonetheless excellent. Smooth palpable, refined, full bodied emotionally communicative with strong rhythmically underpinning bass line.

As i Keep destroying my transports when i mess about with the surface mount components I fear the potential for significant further improvement will end here. I do believe however, that the next important area to explore is the surface mount componentry at strategic points. But with my impatience and lack of fine manual dexterity I am not going to be able to explore this further.
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Old 27th March 2009, 08:18 AM   #3212
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Quote:
BTW
In the beginning I did loads of tests and the best solution for me is to tighten the puck ever so slightly....almost only whirling it to the end...
No strain and perfect read-outs (that is no muting etc etc) especially at the end of the disc (tracks)
This has been my experience so far too. I also think that a small flat puck, the same diameter as the turntable works best in terms of flattening the disc. The only thing tat also gave a good result was to use a blank CD on top of the one you want to play and then the puck.

Audiojoy:

Can you give us more details about the pioneer stable platter? How bout a photo or is there somewhere we can lay hands on these things?

Fran
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Old 27th March 2009, 09:00 AM   #3213
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Hello Audiojoy are we talking about the Trichord NUMBER 4

I am amazed by your (contrasting) results but again it is all about combinations and experimenting in your own set...

Don''t let the blowing up of boards stop you...Okay...... you win some you loose some......in the end you will get there.
(for 500 bucks you can ruin 10 prints and still have 10 lasers)
.
I am Very Very curiuos how you implemented the stable platter

Can you point out at what location you placed the bybee(s)

If you want to compare your DIY Bybee with the original...all you have to do is send me one....
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Old 27th March 2009, 10:07 AM   #3214
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Quote:
Originally posted by audiojoy
but at the moment prefer the stock clock for its more natural warmth of tone.
You're not the first. I'm very curious to understand why I experienced such an improvement all over the frequency spectrum with the Citizen against the ZTT stock. Anybody tried to glue the resonator as I did?
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Old 27th March 2009, 01:35 PM   #3215
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erik

I think i was impatient I am sure the trichord clock needs to burn in before it can be properly evaluated.

I can send you the 'bybee copy' if you let me know your details for posting.

The pioneer turntable implementation is probably akin to using another cd on top of the one to be played.

I will send photos tomorrow when i am off work
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Old 27th March 2009, 05:50 PM   #3216
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I was just trying my luck...but okay I will send you a pm...

Are you secret about wat you use as bybee materials or do you wanna share....I can understand if not..

I have a couple of standard big size Bybees (not the slipstream)

I have not implemented them yet....so..

Where do you use them......

Are you not straining the frail spindle a lot with the aluminum pioneer platform........anyway I am eager to see your photo''s

I cannot get to your e-mail....maybe you can e-mail me so I can reply..
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Old 28th March 2009, 08:27 AM   #3217
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Quote:
Originally posted by m.massimo


ok jitter, it makes sense.
I forgot to mention that frequency tolerance of the stock ceramic resonator ZTTMX is usually 0.5%=5.000ppm.
In the last two days I listened to many other well-known CDs and all sounds better by far with the Citizen installed.
I know that in the past many declared there was no change or that the stock was better (i.e. johnm http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...05#post1488505), but in my system there's no doubt at all.

Just to avoid confusion: 0.5% = 5,000 ppm (or on the continent: 0,5% = 5.000 ppm).
That's a lot, but again, it doesn't say how stable this frequency is. I guess the only way to find out is to hook up a spectrum analyzer and see what the harmonics are like. I guess the less, the better, right?

If I understand correctly a rock steady output will give few harmonics, one that is unstable will give more harmonics.

The way I visualize it in my mind is that an unstable clock has a lot of variation in the time domain (and hence in the frequency domain). Because the digital playback system operates in the rythm of the clock, this is also affected by these variations. Would it be correct to say that clock variations will be found in the analogue output too?
I think the answer should be yes because I once had a defective CD-ROM player that played audio CD's with what sounded like massive amounts of wow & flutter through its analogue output! A read-speed test of CD-ROM's also showed huge variations. Apart from these speed variations it seemed to work fine (it was actually able to extract data from CD-ROM's). IMO this could only have been the result of a bad oscillator.

Erik mentioned earlier a difference in perceived speed:
Quote:
Originally posted by Erik van Voorst
For instance the standard resonator sounds awfully "slow" when compared to the Trichord.....
This is something I experienced too when I switched to my Primare D20 after weeks of listening to the Shiga only. Now that I switch more often between them, I don't seem to perceive that difference anymore. It's not unlike switching between a big van and a small passenger car, awkward at first but once you do it often, it goes seemlessly...

If the resonator is on the low side of the tolerance band (-0.5%), some people that are very sensitive to speed variations might perceive this as a "slow" transport...
I know some are very sensitive. A colleaugue of mine used to be a service technician and in the old days of tapes and cassettes every now and again someone would take back a cassette deck with the complaint of it being slow or fast. At first he could not hear anything wrong but after timing it found it to be off ever so slightly. We're talking just a few seconds (!) in 45 minutes playtime (one side of a C90 cassette).
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Old 28th March 2009, 08:41 AM   #3218
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here's the stable platter turntable as a puck! obviously made of aluminium and the rubbery material that sits on the disc
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Old 28th March 2009, 08:44 AM   #3219
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here is the bybee clone, it was bought from an electronics company, the material used I believe had the same ability 'to filter out stray unwanted electrons'.
Vaguely remember at the time something about it being using in guitars ???pickups

The little disc carries the special conductive material on its centre and was capped with a plastic dome about an inch in diameter.
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Old 28th March 2009, 08:53 AM   #3220
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Hello Audiojoy,

I do not get it....if this acts as a puck...(instead as a platter) the rubber mat has to be removed and placed on top of the cd and then the alu platter over the cd...like a miniature frying pan upside down......with the mat in it....

How can your laser otherwise read the info.....
Unless ofcourse your laser does NOT read from the bottom....
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