yep, so about 50-60ma total, plus a tiny bit for whatever the second clock uses in standby. powering the clock board, or even entire fifo board on battery is totally viable, still not sure why you would use USB to charge but hey its not a huge deal, but if you add having to
A. power the fifo in its entirety plus a dac on battery and fit it all inside something you can call transportable...
B. power the fifo clock board and clock side isolator only, plus IV with 2 different battery voltages and charge both with USB, stepping up the voltage for the IV batteries...
it becomes a bit more complicated.
for the second case, you could of course wire the batteries differently for charging and disconnect this connection via knife relays; so that they are charged in parallel 5v sections, but used in series for 24v.
all seems a bit of a pita. just buy a reasonable dedicated charger, newer ones can be connected to, monitored by and controlled by the computer. so would be not so difficult to know when the dac isnt in use and automatically enable the charger.
A. power the fifo in its entirety plus a dac on battery and fit it all inside something you can call transportable...
B. power the fifo clock board and clock side isolator only, plus IV with 2 different battery voltages and charge both with USB, stepping up the voltage for the IV batteries...
it becomes a bit more complicated.
for the second case, you could of course wire the batteries differently for charging and disconnect this connection via knife relays; so that they are charged in parallel 5v sections, but used in series for 24v.
all seems a bit of a pita. just buy a reasonable dedicated charger, newer ones can be connected to, monitored by and controlled by the computer. so would be not so difficult to know when the dac isnt in use and automatically enable the charger.
Passive battery management PCB samples arrive as well. A lot of "backdoor" left. Anything is possible
. Will play with it after I finish testing the isolation board.Ian
Battery can power whole FIFO KIT, that's no any problem. But only clock board cares much about the PSU noise. Isolator board can prevent noise introducing from front end to clock board via PSU, GND or signals and makes the clock board as a local part of DAC.
Ian
FIFO isolator board is working
I assembled two isolator boards today. One uses IL260E, and the other uses Si8650BC. IL260 mounted on top of the PCB. Si8650 at the bottom.
I stack the isolator board on top of the FIFO board just as I posted. One 6”FFC/FPC cable and three 4” u.fl cables connected to the isolator board from FIFO side. Clock board side was as same as the old connections between FIFO and clock board.
Two independent battery packs were employed powering the dual xo clock board and the FIFO board from both side. There was no any galvanic connection in between. Clock board belongs to the DAC 100% now.
They started running right away on my BIII ESS9018 DAC with SYNC configuration. 32 bit Loop test passed without any problem. Bit perfect confirmed. It sounds wonderful. All results are positive. But I don’t want talking too much about that. I’ll leave this part to the testing group.
I did some comparing between IL260E and Si8650BC. No significant in difference. But it feels like Si8650BC a little little bit better, very tiny. I know it was most probably my psychological factors. However I noticed that 8650 comes with higher speed (150 MHz) and less propagation delay.
This small isolator board makes it possible that powering the clock board with independent low noise battery based power supply, while the FIFO board just from a normal regulated power. It would be much easier having a supper low noise PUS just for a small section of circuit. Longer battery life and less EMI noise from other section.
Next step, I’ll test the passive battery management board together with this isolator board to see if there is any possible achieving higher audio performance.
Please refer the pictures and picture names below for more details.
Since the isolation board is confirmed functional, I’ll send them to the testing group for evaluation on this weekend. 6" FCC cable and resistor packs will be included.
Ian
I assembled two isolator boards today. One uses IL260E, and the other uses Si8650BC. IL260 mounted on top of the PCB. Si8650 at the bottom.
I stack the isolator board on top of the FIFO board just as I posted. One 6”FFC/FPC cable and three 4” u.fl cables connected to the isolator board from FIFO side. Clock board side was as same as the old connections between FIFO and clock board.
Two independent battery packs were employed powering the dual xo clock board and the FIFO board from both side. There was no any galvanic connection in between. Clock board belongs to the DAC 100% now.
They started running right away on my BIII ESS9018 DAC with SYNC configuration. 32 bit Loop test passed without any problem. Bit perfect confirmed. It sounds wonderful. All results are positive. But I don’t want talking too much about that. I’ll leave this part to the testing group.
I did some comparing between IL260E and Si8650BC. No significant in difference. But it feels like Si8650BC a little little bit better, very tiny. I know it was most probably my psychological factors. However I noticed that 8650 comes with higher speed (150 MHz) and less propagation delay.
This small isolator board makes it possible that powering the clock board with independent low noise battery based power supply, while the FIFO board just from a normal regulated power. It would be much easier having a supper low noise PUS just for a small section of circuit. Longer battery life and less EMI noise from other section.
Next step, I’ll test the passive battery management board together with this isolator board to see if there is any possible achieving higher audio performance.
Please refer the pictures and picture names below for more details.
Since the isolation board is confirmed functional, I’ll send them to the testing group for evaluation on this weekend. 6" FCC cable and resistor packs will be included.
Ian
Attachments
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Indeed, excellent work Ian!
I guess now with the isol in the system as shown, if there is source components fed from the same transformer as the DAC there may be coupling between the secondaries of this transformer that allows some noise propagation?
In my case I'll have usb->i2s device powered from same transformer as my DAC, so there is some coupling between the transformer secondaries. Now I could go and add batteries to the DAC, but then I have linestage/IV connected back to the same transformer also (custom toroid with 6 secondaries, for compactness).
I need to work out a way of quantifying that coupling I guess, just something else to ponder on those sleepless nights I suppose.
I guess now with the isol in the system as shown, if there is source components fed from the same transformer as the DAC there may be coupling between the secondaries of this transformer that allows some noise propagation?
In my case I'll have usb->i2s device powered from same transformer as my DAC, so there is some coupling between the transformer secondaries. Now I could go and add batteries to the DAC, but then I have linestage/IV connected back to the same transformer also (custom toroid with 6 secondaries, for compactness).
I need to work out a way of quantifying that coupling I guess, just something else to ponder on those sleepless nights I suppose.
R1 and R2 resistor networks are going to be fun, could almost tack them down and draw a bead of solder down them at the same time theyre that close together
hochopeper, almost a good reason to power the usb board over usb =) given the USB psu is going to have pretty much no significance once this is in place
hochopeper, almost a good reason to power the usb board over usb =) given the USB psu is going to have pretty much no significance once this is in place
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That answer is so obvious, how did I miss thinking of that?Anyways, why are you being so logical!?
Anyways, why are you being so logical!?
exhaustion? at this point in the project I just want to get it in a box, it sounds incredible as it is, anything that cuts clutter and more power supplies without penalty is on my radar
i'm sorry, but if you still havent picked that up, I dont know where to start. you do know what galvanic isolation actually means right? have you bothered to look at any of the datasheets for the parts mentioned here?
this place is an information resource and mostly we like to help, but there is a point where you have to take some initiative and do some learning yourself.... as in DIY, this place isnt called KDIFM (Kindly Do It For Me)
youve read (well its been explicitly written) that both sides of the board are powered by different power supplies, youve read that there is a choice of isolator chips and it can be clearly seen on the board that the PCB is physically split right down the middle. look at the datasheet for the only part that straddles the gap and you'll have your answer
this place is an information resource and mostly we like to help, but there is a point where you have to take some initiative and do some learning yourself.... as in DIY, this place isnt called KDIFM (Kindly Do It For Me)
youve read (well its been explicitly written) that both sides of the board are powered by different power supplies, youve read that there is a choice of isolator chips and it can be clearly seen on the board that the PCB is physically split right down the middle. look at the datasheet for the only part that straddles the gap and you'll have your answer
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qusp, you are incredibly rude. Again. You've made it clear to everyone here that your electronics skills are high and mighty. Sometimes you even share your wealth of knowledge. The thing is, your delivery can be extremely condescending, and in my experience, disappointingly un-Ozzie.
It might be beneficial for you to ponder the question of why you feel the need to behave this way.
It might be beneficial for you to ponder the question of why you feel the need to behave this way.
ggking7,
Perhaps using the search features and finding the answers to your own relatively simple questions might save those who have been following these threads and development for an extended period from answering the same questions over and over and over and over. You have been replying in this thread since late august and yet are still asking questions that are clearly outlined in manuals that have been very thoroughly prepared and published by Ian.
I frankly have no idea how Ian is able to sustain his seemingly limitless amount of patience!
If you select search, advanced search then search this and the GB thread for posts by iancanada you will find almost all of the answers you are looking for.
Most of the time you will get helpful answers if you have demonstrated initiative to find your own information, asking for people to take there own time to walk you through these things from the beginning without searching for yourself will typically get similarly terse responses regardless of the responders country of origin or whether you are asking the question online or in person.
Chris
Perhaps using the search features and finding the answers to your own relatively simple questions might save those who have been following these threads and development for an extended period from answering the same questions over and over and over and over. You have been replying in this thread since late august and yet are still asking questions that are clearly outlined in manuals that have been very thoroughly prepared and published by Ian.
I frankly have no idea how Ian is able to sustain his seemingly limitless amount of patience!
If you select search, advanced search then search this and the GB thread for posts by iancanada you will find almost all of the answers you are looking for.
Most of the time you will get helpful answers if you have demonstrated initiative to find your own information, asking for people to take there own time to walk you through these things from the beginning without searching for yourself will typically get similarly terse responses regardless of the responders country of origin or whether you are asking the question online or in person.
Chris
Little did I know, qusp has actually been serving as the enforcer for the entire Brisbane crew!
This thread appears to be experts-only and that's fine. I suppose you need someplace to discuss things without being asked about matters beneath you. Condescension is probably a very effective filter. I'm just new to this attitude in an online forum and was caught by surprise.
This thread appears to be experts-only and that's fine. I suppose you need someplace to discuss things without being asked about matters beneath you. Condescension is probably a very effective filter. I'm just new to this attitude in an online forum and was caught by surprise.
Hi ggking,
For normal digital audio applications, we don't need the isolator, it's not a must. But for some crazy audiophile DIYers, they pursue the last drop of juce, so they need isolating everything, clock, jitter and even galvanic connections. Their results usually beat much expensive high end audio gears.
Here are the datasheets of the isolators I'm using. As well as the follow link:
Digital Isolator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Just hope there are some helps
.Have a nice weekend.
Ian
haha you clearly dont know many Aussies. Smiling up to a point.... i'm just not shy to say what others are thinking, rather Aussie trait that one. To 'call a spade a spade' so to speak. I suspect you have only seen us on television
You see, I find the deserving and somewhat lazy attitude of 'diyers' like yourself rude and you have just reinforced that by your juvenile response to me and Chris because he dared to feel the same way. Out come the slurs and silly patriotic guilt trips. We both bit our tongues yesterday and other days before that, I couldnt do the same again today.
to expect others to take the time out of their lives to spoonfeed you when the answers are right in front of you gets old pretty fast. You choose to repeatedly just type out questions to the oracle, now that is rude. I wont attribute this to your country of origin, its all over this forum and others like it in todays world. treating the internet forums and their members like they are some personal magical interactive time and money saving mechanism instead of people with the same constraints on their time as you have. if you behaved that way at work you wouldnt last long would you? Certainly nowhere i've ever worked.
if you dont understand a concept, the information is as freely available on the net to you as it is to anyone else. I'm not trained, i'm a Chef and designer by trade; I had to/have to learn by reading and doing, yes by asking questions along the way, but you have to show you are willing to do something. In this thread and those all over the forum, or in life, if you continue to show no initiative and just keep putting your hand out, people will get sick of it and yes some of them will let you know about it; i'm one of those people.
I/We get sick of having to hold peoples hand when they take on projects that are beyond their current knowledge, yet seem unwilling to do any work of their own to grow their understanding.
you will get nowhere doing DIY if you cannot take some initiative, read datasheets and manuals, google galvanic isolation, understand the questions you are asking and try to find out yourself before expecting it to be handed to you, you learn nothing in that process. then because you havent equipped yourself to better understand next time, you just ask for the answer again with the next thing and again walk away having learned nothing. If something goes wrong (quite likely) you will not be equipped to figure out what went wrong; then the forum will be expected to come to the rescue, like its something owed to you.
You see, I find the deserving and somewhat lazy attitude of 'diyers' like yourself rude and you have just reinforced that by your juvenile response to me and Chris because he dared to feel the same way. Out come the slurs and silly patriotic guilt trips. We both bit our tongues yesterday and other days before that, I couldnt do the same again today.
to expect others to take the time out of their lives to spoonfeed you when the answers are right in front of you gets old pretty fast. You choose to repeatedly just type out questions to the oracle, now that is rude. I wont attribute this to your country of origin, its all over this forum and others like it in todays world. treating the internet forums and their members like they are some personal magical interactive time and money saving mechanism instead of people with the same constraints on their time as you have. if you behaved that way at work you wouldnt last long would you? Certainly nowhere i've ever worked.
if you dont understand a concept, the information is as freely available on the net to you as it is to anyone else. I'm not trained, i'm a Chef and designer by trade; I had to/have to learn by reading and doing, yes by asking questions along the way, but you have to show you are willing to do something. In this thread and those all over the forum, or in life, if you continue to show no initiative and just keep putting your hand out, people will get sick of it and yes some of them will let you know about it; i'm one of those people.
I/We get sick of having to hold peoples hand when they take on projects that are beyond their current knowledge, yet seem unwilling to do any work of their own to grow their understanding.
you will get nowhere doing DIY if you cannot take some initiative, read datasheets and manuals, google galvanic isolation, understand the questions you are asking and try to find out yourself before expecting it to be handed to you, you learn nothing in that process. then because you havent equipped yourself to better understand next time, you just ask for the answer again with the next thing and again walk away having learned nothing. If something goes wrong (quite likely) you will not be equipped to figure out what went wrong; then the forum will be expected to come to the rescue, like its something owed to you.
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