Hi Ed,
I would suggest you placing a FIFO isolator between FIFO and your dual xo clock board. I don't think you need two isolators in one system.
However if your still want including an isolator after usb, I confirmed Amanero Combo384 + universal isolator + fifo +dual xo (45/49) works for 384KHz. (waveio xomos doesn't).
Both of them generate I2S timing by software, but Amanero has an external cpld to dealing with it. That might be the reason. Somebody has already found this problem of XOMS, please google it, you may find some details.
I have already order the new generation xome usb, I'll put some update once I received it. Hopefully the new BGA version of XMOS doesn't have this issue.
The universal I2S/DSD isloator was here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-213.html#post3329364
I still have some prototype PCB. I can give you one or two if you want.
Regards,
Ian
Attachments
Dual clockboard/384Khz
Hi Ian,
Thanks for your explanation.
I did place your (2.0) isolator indeed between Fifo- and clockboard.
I use the isolated connection from the WaveIO to have a nice extra I2S input via the SPDIF input board.(Backdoor remember?)
I need the isolator between Fifo- and clockboard because the clocks are fed by a lifepo4 battery.
Question:
1) Can I, after removing L11, work without the isolator?(When using battery)
2) Is it an elegant way to split up coax (hirose) to make the 'backdoor' connection? Or is there another possibillity.
In the meantime I would gladly try one of your prototype PCB's. Does a BOM exist for this board?
And get myself an Amanero. But I must say I am soundwise happy with WaveIO.
Go and try for now if having just one isolator, between Fifo and clockboard, does the trick.
Regards,
Ed
Hi Ian,
Thanks for your explanation.
I did place your (2.0) isolator indeed between Fifo- and clockboard.
I use the isolated connection from the WaveIO to have a nice extra I2S input via the SPDIF input board.(Backdoor remember?)
I need the isolator between Fifo- and clockboard because the clocks are fed by a lifepo4 battery.
Question:
1) Can I, after removing L11, work without the isolator?(When using battery)
2) Is it an elegant way to split up coax (hirose) to make the 'backdoor' connection? Or is there another possibillity.
In the meantime I would gladly try one of your prototype PCB's. Does a BOM exist for this board?
And get myself an Amanero. But I must say I am soundwise happy with WaveIO.
Go and try for now if having just one isolator, between Fifo and clockboard, does the trick.
Regards,
Ed
1) You can power the dual xo clock board separately after removing L11
2) I'v never tried other way connecting the back door, You can give a try if your have some good ideas.
They are just PCB only, all components you have to order and assemble by yourself. Please message me your address if you still want the PCB.
Regards,
Ian
Dual XO Clockboard/384Khz
Hi again Ian!
My routing now is :
PC>WaveIO(isolated I2S)>Fifo 'backdoor'>Dual Clockboard(45/49)>1794Dac.
So no isolator between Fifo and clockboard.
L11 removed, no problem anymore with double power.
Clockboard powered by lifepo4 battery.
44.1 up to 384Khz without any problem!
Please tell me if this is ok or is there a better way of isolating, if needed at all?
Thanks for your help,
Regards, Ed
Hi again Ian!
My routing now is :
PC>WaveIO(isolated I2S)>Fifo 'backdoor'>Dual Clockboard(45/49)>1794Dac.
So no isolator between Fifo and clockboard.
L11 removed, no problem anymore with double power.
Clockboard powered by lifepo4 battery.
44.1 up to 384Khz without any problem!
Please tell me if this is ok or is there a better way of isolating, if needed at all?
Thanks for your help,
Regards, Ed
Very Good, just going with it.
I'm waiting for my new xmos usb and I'll update once I start to run it.
Regards,
Ian
384
Hi Ian!
I was to fast this time!
Hahahasnisnif,
It was just a blurb I think. Did it only once for a minute or so!
Though 352 is successful. So there is progress...
I wil wait for your findings with the new Xmos.
Tomorrow I wil give another try without the WaveIO isolator and let you know,
Go to bed now,
Regards,
Ed
Hi Ian!
I was to fast this time!
Hahahasnisnif,
It was just a blurb I think. Did it only once for a minute or so!
Though 352 is successful. So there is progress...
I wil wait for your findings with the new Xmos.
Tomorrow I wil give another try without the WaveIO isolator and let you know,
Go to bed now,
Regards,
Ed
Isolator/384/Shane
Hi Shane,
This was intended to be my last move...
I tried it earlier but forgot about it because I want to use my SPDIF ínput switcher.
So what I did again is:
WaveIO>directly into the coax Fifo>Ian's universal isolator>Dual xo (45/49)Clockboard>DDDac1794
and.....
Success! 384 again. Clean as can be!
So the problem resides in the use of the isolated WaveIO in this setup.
Make myself a new cable for the 'backdoor' and go on with my life.
Thank you all for the help,
regards,
Ed
Hi Shane,
This was intended to be my last move...
I tried it earlier but forgot about it because I want to use my SPDIF ínput switcher.
So what I did again is:
WaveIO>directly into the coax Fifo>Ian's universal isolator>Dual xo (45/49)Clockboard>DDDac1794
and.....
Success! 384 again. Clean as can be!
So the problem resides in the use of the isolated WaveIO in this setup.
Make myself a new cable for the 'backdoor' and go on with my life.
Thank you all for the help,
regards,
Ed
Hi Ed :
Question of a newbie: is it better to have two isolator : the one of the Wave I/O (so no UF.L connector) and the one fo Ian after ? Does one is not enough to isolate "Totaly" ?
@ Ian : Hi Ian : have you been checking your PCM thread recently please? Wee need you here also
: about your PCM board (aviability, shipment date, some question about Fs ... et tout ça !"
Question of a newbie: is it better to have two isolator : the one of the Wave I/O (so no UF.L connector) and the one fo Ian after ? Does one is not enough to isolate "Totaly" ?
@ Ian : Hi Ian : have you been checking your PCM thread recently please? Wee need you here also
: about your PCM board (aviability, shipment date, some question about Fs ... et tout ça !"Isolator
Hi Eldam,
As I understand is one Isolator sufficient. According to Ian.
The placement could be important. My idea is just before the clockboard.
But it will depend on your setup.
Regards,
Ed
Hi Ed :
Question of a newbie: is it better to have two isolator : the one of the Wave I/O (so no UF.L connector) and the one fo Ian after ? Does one is not enough to isolate "Totaly" ?
@ Ian : Hi Ian : have you been checking your PCM thread recently please? Wee need you here also
Hi Eldam,
As I understand is one Isolator sufficient. According to Ian.
The placement could be important. My idea is just before the clockboard.
But it will depend on your setup.
Regards,
Ed
Hi Ed,
Just to confirm WaveIO Un-isolated output > FIFO > Original Universal Isolator (Ian) > Dual XO > I2S to PCM > DAC chip and now 384kHz success?..
.. and that the only physical change has been to drive from the non-isolated outputs (uFL) on the WaveIO?.
If so.. thats my next move !!
I wonder if the Universal Isolator is better before or after the FIFO in this case?, any thoughts?. Ian, perhaps if you're not swamped with work you can comment?.
Really good stuff !!
Regards,
Shane
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Hi Ed,
Does the Wave I/O have no UF.L connectors after the isolator because those impedance matching are less needed after an isolator chip ? (uf.l connectors just present on the non isolated output of the Wave I/O
According to you or maybe your own test : does the Wave I/O SPIDF input with its input transformer give the same quality than the USB input ?
If you tried both at 192 Khz (because my understanding is SPIDF protocol is 192 Khz max) : did your ears check a different sounding quality betwen the both inputs ?
If I can, I plan to use my SqueezeBox Duet as a streamer and volume controle ! So in my case : a simple Card à la Wave I/O because both the possibility to swap between SPIDF or USB (when Qubitruck A80 exists) and embeded isolator, then the PCM board... eventually in the futur a FIFO or a Masterclok to rule them all but stacked above the DAC board (FIFO or short distance MCLK is a trade off difficult to understand for me !)
At least I understand it's sound good as it is with your configuration !
cheers
Does the Wave I/O have no UF.L connectors after the isolator because those impedance matching are less needed after an isolator chip ? (uf.l connectors just present on the non isolated output of the Wave I/O
According to you or maybe your own test : does the Wave I/O SPIDF input with its input transformer give the same quality than the USB input ?
If you tried both at 192 Khz (because my understanding is SPIDF protocol is 192 Khz max) : did your ears check a different sounding quality betwen the both inputs ?
If I can, I plan to use my SqueezeBox Duet as a streamer and volume controle ! So in my case : a simple Card à la Wave I/O because both the possibility to swap between SPIDF or USB (when Qubitruck A80 exists) and embeded isolator, then the PCM board... eventually in the futur a FIFO or a Masterclok to rule them all but stacked above the DAC board (FIFO or short distance MCLK is a trade off difficult to understand for me !)
At least I understand it's sound good as it is with your configuration !
cheers
Last edited:
Hi Ed :
Question of a newbie: is it better to have two isolator : the one of the Wave I/O (so no UF.L connector) and the one fo Ian after ? Does one is not enough to isolate "Totaly" ?
@ Ian : Hi Ian : have you been checking your PCM thread recently please? Wee need you here also
Thank you for your reminding, will move on to that thread,
Ian
Thanks for for your thank, let me help you to help me and move the isolator : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...rsal-i2s-pcm-driver-board-68.html#post4012775
Did I miss something about th epayement procedure or do you wait for a bigger PCM board interrest list ?
Did I miss something about th epayement procedure or do you wait for a bigger PCM board interrest list ?
WaveIO asf
Hi Eldam
First here info about WaveIO. Luckit | Audiophile grade DIY products
The Iasolator in the Wave is ok. But depends on the used clockboard.
Using the 570 clockboard you can play any resolution, up to 384!
With the dual-board (45/49) you can do the same, when you connect the coax from WaveIO straight to the Fifo-board. If you feel the need for isolation, f.i. in the case you do the battery-mod, Ian's isolatorboard is a fine option, just between Fifo and clockboard.
Upgrading your Squeezebox with Fifo family and good Dac through SPDIF is a very good option. Though 'radio' is a dead end. Quality is and stays in basicly
far behind on the possibillities you have with computer-audio. At this moment
best en affordable with a USB interface. But your radio, a few serious stations, will sound remarkedly better than you thought possible maybe.
With the same program-material SQ from I2S and SPDIF differ much less then without the Fifo. Using top of the bill XO's of course!
You can find all info on Ian's thread.
Wish you a lot of pleasure and fun with the adventure,
Ed
Hi Eldam
First here info about WaveIO. Luckit | Audiophile grade DIY products
The Iasolator in the Wave is ok. But depends on the used clockboard.
Using the 570 clockboard you can play any resolution, up to 384!
With the dual-board (45/49) you can do the same, when you connect the coax from WaveIO straight to the Fifo-board. If you feel the need for isolation, f.i. in the case you do the battery-mod, Ian's isolatorboard is a fine option, just between Fifo and clockboard.
Upgrading your Squeezebox with Fifo family and good Dac through SPDIF is a very good option. Though 'radio' is a dead end. Quality is and stays in basicly
far behind on the possibillities you have with computer-audio. At this moment
best en affordable with a USB interface. But your radio, a few serious stations, will sound remarkedly better than you thought possible maybe.
With the same program-material SQ from I2S and SPDIF differ much less then without the Fifo. Using top of the bill XO's of course!
You can find all info on Ian's thread.
Wish you a lot of pleasure and fun with the adventure,
Ed
WaveIO/DUAL CLOCKBOARD45/49 384khz asf
Hi Shane,
I do not own a multibitter, s.a. 1541. So I dont use the I2S to PCM board.
My route is:
PC > WaveIO (not isolated coax) > Fifo (coax of course) > Ian's Isolator (Ver.2.0) > Dual Clockboard (45/49) > DDDAC1794 > Two monoblocks full class A > Two times ESL63 , grannies but producing beautiful music for my aged ears!
Hi Ian!
The above route works now, up to up to 384Khz.
But......
I am a SPDIF user too!
That means I own the in-output board because I use two SPDIF sources,
galvanic and optical.
Next to the most used one, USB-I2S via the 'backdoor' as you know by now. Hahahaha.
After putting the SPDIF board into the system again, I am back at the start.
NO 384! Lot of noise again, no music. 192Khz MAX.
My suspicion was all of the cabling between the boards.
What I changed:
1) Shortened the backdoor cable to one and a half inch. Using the coax connectors from the WaveIO conversed to the plug on the input/backdoor.
2) Changed the ribbon cable from input board to Fifo with three times two inch coax. (have no shorter!)
3) Changed the ribbon cable from Fifo to Isolator board with three times two (again) inches coax.
Now I am able to play 352Khz! (Just on its toes! Sometimes complaining)
So that was a right guess, or not?
Next thing is to shorten the cables furter, but I can find one inch cables nowhere. Maybe somebody can. Or a better quality perhaps?
For now, since I am stuck to using the input board, I will have to look for shorter/better cables.
Or better wait for your findings with your new xmos usb thingie.
But not too
far away, land in sight!
Regards
Ed
Hi Shane,
I do not own a multibitter, s.a. 1541. So I dont use the I2S to PCM board.
My route is:
PC > WaveIO (not isolated coax) > Fifo (coax of course) > Ian's Isolator (Ver.2.0) > Dual Clockboard (45/49) > DDDAC1794 > Two monoblocks full class A > Two times ESL63 , grannies but producing beautiful music for my aged ears!
Hi Ian!
The above route works now, up to up to 384Khz.
But......
I am a SPDIF user too!
That means I own the in-output board because I use two SPDIF sources,
galvanic and optical.
Next to the most used one, USB-I2S via the 'backdoor' as you know by now. Hahahaha.
After putting the SPDIF board into the system again, I am back at the start.
NO 384! Lot of noise again, no music. 192Khz MAX.
My suspicion was all of the cabling between the boards.
What I changed:
1) Shortened the backdoor cable to one and a half inch. Using the coax connectors from the WaveIO conversed to the plug on the input/backdoor.
2) Changed the ribbon cable from input board to Fifo with three times two inch coax. (have no shorter!)
3) Changed the ribbon cable from Fifo to Isolator board with three times two (again) inches coax.
Now I am able to play 352Khz! (Just on its toes! Sometimes complaining)
So that was a right guess, or not?
Next thing is to shorten the cables furter, but I can find one inch cables nowhere. Maybe somebody can. Or a better quality perhaps?
For now, since I am stuck to using the input board, I will have to look for shorter/better cables.
Or better wait for your findings with your new xmos usb thingie.
But not too
far away, land in sight!Regards
Ed
Hi Chris,
Thank you for this answer, explains a lot! Long time I have been mumbeling
about this issue.
I must be too simple to understand why my 570 clockboard has no problem with this setup. I did know about the 192Khz limitation of SPDIF but expected the I2S routing was a different one on this board, not going through the 9211 as well, but somehow parallel.
Is there maybe another way to have both I2S an Spdif switchable?
And Ian suggesting a different usb interface or an amanero that should ?
I will let it be for a while now,
Thank you,
regards
Ed
That's interesting that Si570 enables the SPDIF board to pass 352/384k music. I'll look into why that may be, could just be luck and may not be working optimally. May need Ian to run a test with that config if he has time?
I think Ian has a solution cooking in his multichannel FIFO project. Alternatively I think you could have an i2s switch like TPA's OTTO-II to select i2s data from amanero or from spdif board and feed it into FIFO input. I do not know if that board would cope with 352/384k but I think it should do ok.
Chris