ESS ES9023 Sabre Premier DAC with integrated op amp - diyAudio
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Old 28th January 2011, 04:30 AM   #1
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Default ESS ES9023 Sabre Premier DAC with integrated op amp

ESS has quietly rolled the ES9022 over to the ES9023. While the product brief link on ESS's DAC page is broken I contacted Bryan at Shaw Electronics and got the datasheet. While ESS no longer requires an NDA to obtain datasheets one still does need to contact the distributor to get them so I suppose I probably shouldn't get into too much detail on an open forum. Suffice to say the ES9023 looks VERY similar to the ES9022.

I am somewhat fascinated by these chips and am contemplating doing a build with them since I think they're pretty cool. In particular, I find myself wondering

1) What exactly the difference between the ES9023 and ES9022 is.
2) What actual minimum load impedance is. Both datasheets say 5k but parts of the 9023 datasheet can be interpreted to indicate 3k or even 700 ohm. And 5k doesn't make much sense since in most applications you'd have to buffer the 9022/9023 with an op amp, rather defeating the purpose of having an op amp integrated into the DAC. I've found remarks in various threads indicating folks are driving headphones directly with the 9022. No measurements, though, and the 'phones impedance typically isn't stated---this is of the clearer threads, calling out a 70 ohm impedance. Personally, if the parts are happy with a 1k load then I'd be happy too.
3) How THD varies as a function of output level. -94dB typ at 0dBFS is pretty decent but most DACs exhibit flat THD with falling output level to some corner level with a linear increase below that (figure 24 in the PCM1795 datasheet is a good example). I'm curious if this is the case for the 9022/9023 and what the corner level might be.
4) How sensitive the integrated op amp is to output loading. Unlike most op amps there's no stable capacitive load spec and, curiously, application diagram calls out a first order "RC" lowpass on the output with 0 ohm resistors and 4.7nF caps rather. Quite different from the usual 2+kOhm source impedance second or third order filters called out for most DACs. Or the 22-100 ohm resistors used to prevent an interconnect driver op amp from oscillating. I like the low source impedance, but the filter pole with a 0R is high enough I'm kinda curious why the output caps are there at all.
5) What the best point to tap ground is if one wants to approximate a balanced output. I'd normally expect this would be AGND as connecting to Vreg would increase the amount of interconnect noise coupled into the DAC's reference tank. However, the pin description for Vreg can be interpreted to mean it's the preferred connection point.

Anyone happen to have data that would help answer any of these questions? Just trying to knock out as many variables as I can in the design phase rather than doing multiple prototypes.

Last edited by twest820; 28th January 2011 at 04:35 AM.
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Old 28th January 2011, 06:27 AM   #2
EUVL is offline EUVL  Europe
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Everypne who has a datasheet fpr the ES9022 has signed an NDA, so I doubt if anyone will discuss with you here openly. Most of the questions you post you can get an answer from ESS via the distributor. They answered all my questions regarding the 9022. And you do not need a buffer for the output. They recommend you connect a capacitor directly at the output for HF filtering, so it is stable for capacitive load to the recommended value, and probably beyond. If you ask them the right questions, you can even figure out the output impedance.

So I can only suggest you contact them.

I knew of the 9023 as well, but they withdrew the webpage. And I also wonder what the differences are to the 9022.


Patrick
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Old 28th January 2011, 07:32 AM   #3
Zoran is offline Zoran  Serbia
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Yes it will work pretty well W/O the buffer...
But for the better sound performance
good buffer is recommended,
(just try it and You will hear the diff.)
that could be simple like AD797 op,
or JFET circuit...
Employ another device to cope with reactive loads
not the main device? (and avoid condenser which should be from high values
min 10uF to fit the let say 10K r of next stage...)

cheers
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Old 28th January 2011, 09:26 AM   #4
EUVL is offline EUVL  Europe
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According to my experience (please see the ES9022 thread) there is no nned to use a buffer unless you have difficult load to drive. (The 9022 has an output impedance of a couple of hundred ohms.) Even in that case, 2 matched pairs of 2SK372V will be a much better choice than any opamps at unity gain.

As always a matter of taste.


Patrick
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Old 28th January 2011, 10:54 AM   #5
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I noticed the 9023 a week or so ago, but didn't think to much about it.

I'm waiting on the new datasheet to arrive.
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Old 28th January 2011, 11:30 AM   #6
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Datasheet just turned up in my inbox.

Interesting, VERY similar is a good description, plus a fair bit more info.
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Old 28th January 2011, 03:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EUVL View Post
Everyone who has a datasheet fpr the ES9022 has signed an NDA, so I doubt if anyone will discuss with you here openly.
Depends on when the datasheet was acquired; I obtained my 9022 datasheet post-NDA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EUVL View Post
So I can only suggest you contact them.
Them = Ismosys? I didn't get much from the US distributor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EUVL View Post
there is no need to use a buffer unless you have difficult load to drive
Good to know, as is the output impedance. I take it a couple hundred pF in parallel with 1k wouldn't be a difficult load (e.g. a couple meters of mic cable with a receiver op amp on the other end)? Also, were you referring to this thread? I searched before starting this one and didn't find much, either on DIYA or otherwise (though I find search engines profile me as an English language user and return mainly English hits even when the query isn't language restricted), but would be pretty interested in the schematic for your 9022 build.
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Old 28th January 2011, 04:50 PM   #8
EUVL is offline EUVL  Europe
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> Also, were you referring to this thread?

Yes, and also the QA550 thread.
Would appreciate a copy of the 9023 datasheet, if it is not too much trouble.
Pls send me a email via the forum.

Yours is turned off.

Thx,
Patrick
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Old 28th January 2011, 05:24 PM   #9
jkeny is offline jkeny  Ireland
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Patrick,
I'll email you a copy of the 9023 datasheet - just got one today. Nothing significant in the one difference between 9022 & 9023. What's the deal with the NDA, either it's no longer needed & we can discuss details here or we remain gagged?
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Old 28th January 2011, 05:29 PM   #10
EUVL is offline EUVL  Europe
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I signed one for the 9022. So I'll stick to that.
Apparently different for 9023....

Patrick
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