I am sorry if I offend your scottish audiophileness, but I am quite satisfied with the performance of the dcx after having had a marchand xover in my - at that time complete active - system for years in a three way sub/sat configuration.
I have them compared and found the sonics of the dcx not wanting - but one has to be honest with oneself. I had expected some degradation when compared with the analog x-over, but was pleasently surprised.
After I had compared cables, turntable amps - mostly of studio origin - cartridge/tonearm combinations I have concluded that real sound differences exist - as long as distortion doesn't rear its ugly head:
in speakers - which to quite an astonishing extend can be controlled by a deq (having done so with a quite midrangy kef calinda)
in tonearm/cartridge combinations
in phono preamps that are unsatisfactory when it comes to noisefloor
(as in the quite lousy naim phono board that I supplied with power from a well made PS)
and in amps when they are overdriven.
That is why I basically give a rats *** about sonic impressions by others, but am interested in the functionality, durability (yes, the behringer stuff can suffer from problems here) and the features a unit offers - and the price it can be purchaased at..
If this stance goes against the forums policy - I am not aware of such one, and do not apologize.
I have them compared and found the sonics of the dcx not wanting - but one has to be honest with oneself. I had expected some degradation when compared with the analog x-over, but was pleasently surprised.
After I had compared cables, turntable amps - mostly of studio origin - cartridge/tonearm combinations I have concluded that real sound differences exist - as long as distortion doesn't rear its ugly head:
in speakers - which to quite an astonishing extend can be controlled by a deq (having done so with a quite midrangy kef calinda)
in tonearm/cartridge combinations
in phono preamps that are unsatisfactory when it comes to noisefloor
(as in the quite lousy naim phono board that I supplied with power from a well made PS)
and in amps when they are overdriven.
That is why I basically give a rats *** about sonic impressions by others, but am interested in the functionality, durability (yes, the behringer stuff can suffer from problems here) and the features a unit offers - and the price it can be purchaased at..
If this stance goes against the forums policy - I am not aware of such one, and do not apologize.
Hi,
now I know you were serious.
You are entitled to your opinions and the conclusions you have reached following your research. No can take those away from you.
I reached a different conclusion when I tested the DCX driving a pair of amps into an Acoustic Energy AE1. The DCX completely killed any dynamics and softened the treble and removed all enjoyment from the listening experience compared to the standard passive crossover fed from bi-wired and bi-amplified power.
Real music returned after removing DCX.
BTW,
the pair of amps and the wiring were the same in the before and after DCX coupling.
now I know you were serious.
You are entitled to your opinions and the conclusions you have reached following your research. No can take those away from you.
I reached a different conclusion when I tested the DCX driving a pair of amps into an Acoustic Energy AE1. The DCX completely killed any dynamics and softened the treble and removed all enjoyment from the listening experience compared to the standard passive crossover fed from bi-wired and bi-amplified power.
Real music returned after removing DCX.
BTW,
the pair of amps and the wiring were the same in the before and after DCX coupling.
audio-kraut said:
"I am not interested in the sonic creds,..."
Gear's Sonic creds are what this site and the contributing folk are all about, no?
>300dB heh? wow, that's pretty steep. I don't know what to say to that. I just use LR 24 on the LF and LR or BUTT 12 on MF/HF/UFF. If you need a 300dB/oct. slope, I'd like to know why. Please share.
Best,
I thought more diy and the technical stuff accompanying it, including measurements.
On some equipment - mostly electromechanical i.e. speakers and analogue playback - subjective comments accompanying measurements can be useful.
When it comes to purely electronical equipment operating within certain specs and its design parameters - I simply have heard no or only very insignificant differences, whereby the emphasis is on "different", not better or worse.
I had hoped - except for some lapses - most "subjective" discussions belonged to "a - gon
"Anyway - I am still waiting for the answer of what makes the dbx so outstanding - guess I have to start googling.
BTW - I have had the DCX first controlling diy fully active speakers, at present I run it in combination with kef 104/2 crossed over at 48dB and time aligned with a single isobarik and vented subwoofer using some 10" vifa drivers.
I am very satisfied with clarity, frequency response, a bass reproduction very much controlled and punchy in attack and decay.
Down to a measured - 5db (before correction with a deq) at 20 Hz.
audio-kraut said:
I thought more diy and the technical stuff accompanying it, including measurements.
On some equipment - mostly electromechanical i.e. speakers and analogue playback - subjective comments accompanying measurements can be useful.
When it comes to purely electronical equipment operating within certain specs and its design parameters - I simply have heard no or only very insignificant difference, whereby the emphasis is on "different", not better or worse.
I had hoped - except for some lapses - most "subjective" discussions belonged to "a - gon
Anyway - I am still waiting for the answer of what makes the dbx so outstanding - guess I have to start googling.
Jensen? Does it matter? I NEVER SAID IT WAS GREAT
Damn, what I was ASKING, remember? I'm after the same persuit that we all seek.
Ok, you got me AK, and you really compel some thought here.
I guess it is the price, the connecticity, the LORE, but basically I'm curious because there is Bherry, dbx, Klark, Bss, ....?
The +4 speaker controller is a rather niche product...
Non-pro use of them...RARE! stand up!
(I was thinking this would be a cool new thread, what your 2-ch deal used to be like before going active x/o multi-channel stereo!)
The dbx products have fans. Bherry probably should have them too. Mine get warm, and I have a space between each one.
I don't know WHY they should sound better, I was just wondering IF they sound better. Sure as smack the mod game on DCX is lightyears ahead of dbx products...I don't think I have even heard of a modded driverack anywhere. ego ego, leggo my ego.
Andrew T - please lets us in on more detail of your listening setup, like
*was it stock DCX you listened to?
*was the crossover done in digital and passive crossover removed during DCX listening?
*if yes then how did you make sure you had exact same transfer functions on filters in DCX compared to passive ones....
Anyway - don't you think that some of the mods described in this thread really do change the sound of the unit and your pointed out flaws are some that do improve with these mods.
Regards,
Ergo
*was it stock DCX you listened to?
*was the crossover done in digital and passive crossover removed during DCX listening?
*if yes then how did you make sure you had exact same transfer functions on filters in DCX compared to passive ones....
Anyway - don't you think that some of the mods described in this thread really do change the sound of the unit and your pointed out flaws are some that do improve with these mods.
Regards,
Ergo
Just to clarify somewhat - I run all signals to a src (2496 from - you guessed it - behringer) and sample with 88.2kHz/ 24 bit rate.
I have encountered problems on some cd's, when trying to upsample with 96kHz - nasty noises, like clicks, start showing up.
And
I have nothing against subjective impressions being posted - they just don't tell me much, except when somebody compares some speakers - maybe. That' s why I find them unenlightening.
I had a look at the db'x's before, but was taken aback at their price, without finding out how they compare - let's say to a deq/dbx combo, in any practical aplication.
I have the dcx now for several years, and I am quite familiar with the menu and it's capabilities. Thats why I am interested how a pro product at almost twenty times the price can compare in features.
I have encountered problems on some cd's, when trying to upsample with 96kHz - nasty noises, like clicks, start showing up.
And
thats all I wanted, thanks.
I have nothing against subjective impressions being posted - they just don't tell me much, except when somebody compares some speakers - maybe. That' s why I find them unenlightening.
I had a look at the db'x's before, but was taken aback at their price, without finding out how they compare - let's say to a deq/dbx combo, in any practical aplication.
I have the dcx now for several years, and I am quite familiar with the menu and it's capabilities. Thats why I am interested how a pro product at almost twenty times the price can compare in features.
Hi Ergo,
I have been watching DCX mods and reading reports on how to make it better.
In the couple of months I experimented with the software setting up (kept the hardware as stock DCX) I could not get the Acoustic Energy to sound right/nice as standard nor could I get deep bass out of it.
That was the revelation I came across as I modified my amps and bought a truly wideband pre-amp. These tiny speakers can actually produce lowish levels of very low frequency bass.
You recall my recent enquiry on value for money mods to DCX, I have not given up.
When most of my other projects are up and running well, I shall pull DCX back out of it's box and try again, but it needs a lot of time and improvement to approach decent standards of reproduction.
And yes, the passive crossover was removed. I did that mod a decade or two back when I was experimenting with improving the bi-amping set up. I thought that hanging the two halves of the crossover on the back of the amplifiers and running short leads direct from each crossover to respective drivers (no speaker terminals) would improve the sound, but I could not detect any difference. But to get that to work I had to temporarily remove the individually insulated multicore internal cables that AE fitted as standard. Maybe there is something to this cable sound thing!
I have been watching DCX mods and reading reports on how to make it better.
In the couple of months I experimented with the software setting up (kept the hardware as stock DCX) I could not get the Acoustic Energy to sound right/nice as standard nor could I get deep bass out of it.
That was the revelation I came across as I modified my amps and bought a truly wideband pre-amp. These tiny speakers can actually produce lowish levels of very low frequency bass.
You recall my recent enquiry on value for money mods to DCX, I have not given up.
When most of my other projects are up and running well, I shall pull DCX back out of it's box and try again, but it needs a lot of time and improvement to approach decent standards of reproduction.
And yes, the passive crossover was removed. I did that mod a decade or two back when I was experimenting with improving the bi-amping set up. I thought that hanging the two halves of the crossover on the back of the amplifiers and running short leads direct from each crossover to respective drivers (no speaker terminals) would improve the sound, but I could not detect any difference. But to get that to work I had to temporarily remove the individually insulated multicore internal cables that AE fitted as standard. Maybe there is something to this cable sound thing!
Hi all
I'm building some active loudspeakers and would like to use BEHRINGER DCX2496 as an active crossover.
I haven’t chance to read all post in this tread, I'm short with time, but I see that people are using some kind volume control at the output.
So that means that I would have to build 6chanel balanced preamplifiers and connect them at the output of DCX.
That would be expensive
Could I use one preamp at the input of DCX? Would that work?
What would be advantage or disadvantage of those two approaches?
I have cd player with balanced outputs and also with AES/EBU output, so I can use analog balanced XLR or digital AES/EBU connection.
Is there some well documented project on the net for 6 channel volume control which I can connect at DCX ( it would be great if I could by already made PCB for it )
I apologize if this was answered before, but I just get DCX which I have to buy or return in a two days, so....I will try to read all the tread but...
I'm building some active loudspeakers and would like to use BEHRINGER DCX2496 as an active crossover.
I haven’t chance to read all post in this tread, I'm short with time, but I see that people are using some kind volume control at the output.
So that means that I would have to build 6chanel balanced preamplifiers and connect them at the output of DCX.
That would be expensive
Could I use one preamp at the input of DCX? Would that work?
What would be advantage or disadvantage of those two approaches?
I have cd player with balanced outputs and also with AES/EBU output, so I can use analog balanced XLR or digital AES/EBU connection.
Is there some well documented project on the net for 6 channel volume control which I can connect at DCX ( it would be great if I could by already made PCB for it
)I apologize if this was answered before, but I just get DCX which I have to buy or return in a two days, so....I will try to read all the tread but...
Hi,
DO NOT attenuate an analogue input signal to the DCX.
If your system downstream of the DCX needs attenuation then you must add/modify something.
The simplest is to add a 6channel passive attenuator on one half of the outputs from each of the balanced XLRs. The unused halves need to be terminated, either to ground or through a load to ground.
Or build a 6channel balanced attenuator to feed your six amplifiers.
Or adjust the gain of the amplifiers. (most become unstable or at least less stable if the gain is reduced even slightly).
Or throw away the multiple opamp balanced output stage and INSERT a new PCB that applies filtering and no gain from the digital side. This will require the same care with cabling and impedances as the simplest option above. There are a number of commercial and amateur purveyors offering this type of modification.
Or do something complicated like you suggested.
But, do keep in mind that you must ensure that you maximise the signals through the DCX without any of the clipping indicators coming on.
Do not return your DCX, you will find it a godsend in solving the complicated requirements for a true analogue crossover that suits/matches your drivers to each other and to your ears.
The experimentation possibilities DCX offers cannot be cheaply made any other way. Try to find one of the millions of set up options that you like and then build a crossover to match the Qs you have dialled in.
DO NOT attenuate an analogue input signal to the DCX.
If your system downstream of the DCX needs attenuation then you must add/modify something.
The simplest is to add a 6channel passive attenuator on one half of the outputs from each of the balanced XLRs. The unused halves need to be terminated, either to ground or through a load to ground.
Or build a 6channel balanced attenuator to feed your six amplifiers.
Or adjust the gain of the amplifiers. (most become unstable or at least less stable if the gain is reduced even slightly).
Or throw away the multiple opamp balanced output stage and INSERT a new PCB that applies filtering and no gain from the digital side. This will require the same care with cabling and impedances as the simplest option above. There are a number of commercial and amateur purveyors offering this type of modification.
Or do something complicated like you suggested.
But, do keep in mind that you must ensure that you maximise the signals through the DCX without any of the clipping indicators coming on.
Do not return your DCX, you will find it a godsend in solving the complicated requirements for a true analogue crossover that suits/matches your drivers to each other and to your ears.
The experimentation possibilities DCX offers cannot be cheaply made any other way. Try to find one of the millions of set up options that you like and then build a crossover to match the Qs you have dialled in.
Behringer DCX2496
I've read the first two pages of this thread and can't do anymore. Has anybody bothered to check the manual for this thing??. If you had you would see that input C can be configured as a digital input.
This is not a HiFi crossover, this is a 3 in, 6 out professional rack drive with limiters. As regards crossovers, this thing is capable of 48dB Butterworth all the way down to 6dB, 180 degree phase inversion and much, much more.
This is a 450 Euro control box, nothing more. It is pointless clocking it, chipping it, adding ferrite beads to the power supply. Waste of money. If you want a better deal or better quality, get a better controller like an XTA or Klark Technik which this was probably copied from then de-engineered.
Don't waste ur time or money. Trust me. I have now used over 50 of these things.
I've read the first two pages of this thread and can't do anymore. Has anybody bothered to check the manual for this thing??. If you had you would see that input C can be configured as a digital input.
This is not a HiFi crossover, this is a 3 in, 6 out professional rack drive with limiters. As regards crossovers, this thing is capable of 48dB Butterworth all the way down to 6dB, 180 degree phase inversion and much, much more.
This is a 450 Euro control box, nothing more. It is pointless clocking it, chipping it, adding ferrite beads to the power supply. Waste of money. If you want a better deal or better quality, get a better controller like an XTA or Klark Technik which this was probably copied from then de-engineered.
Don't waste ur time or money. Trust me. I have now used over 50 of these things.
YOKE:
Put your pre amp BEFORE the DCX connected to inputs A and B. If you are doing a 2 way active design, assign output channels 1 and 2 to input A and output channels 3 and 4 to channel B. Now set up the DCX.
When you set the levels from your pre amp to the DCX, make sure the limiters on the output channels are SWITCHED OFF. There is attenuation on the inputs and the outputs of the DCX so don't confuse yourself.
Have fun coz you will.
Put your pre amp BEFORE the DCX connected to inputs A and B. If you are doing a 2 way active design, assign output channels 1 and 2 to input A and output channels 3 and 4 to channel B. Now set up the DCX.
When you set the levels from your pre amp to the DCX, make sure the limiters on the output channels are SWITCHED OFF. There is attenuation on the inputs and the outputs of the DCX so don't confuse yourself.
Have fun coz you will.
On the contrary.
It will do the job fine. I never said that it wouldn't and I've had superb results from them too. The point I'm making is, with all the mods, It ain't a Behringer anymore and if you're going to go down this route for better quality, you can get far more for proportionally less outlay.
If you are going to go down the mods route, then I will concede that the output devices aren't the greatest in the world. Out of the 50 that I've fitted, I've had noisy chips on one of them.
It will do the job fine. I never said that it wouldn't and I've had superb results from them too. The point I'm making is, with all the mods, It ain't a Behringer anymore and if you're going to go down this route for better quality, you can get far more for proportionally less outlay.
If you are going to go down the mods route, then I will concede that the output devices aren't the greatest in the world. Out of the 50 that I've fitted, I've had noisy chips on one of them.
Could I use one preamp at the input of DCX? Would that work?
The DCX is ready to go, just feed your preamp signal and you are
up and running with great sound. Don't get consumed by the mod hype
or the need for output volume hype.
If you are driving consumer grade power amps {RCA} input,
you can make a special XLR to RCA cable that will reduce hiss
due to the interfacing issue related to XLR and RCA.
The DCX is ready to go, just feed your preamp signal and you are
up and running with great sound. Don't get consumed by the mod hype
or the need for output volume hype.
If you are driving consumer grade power amps {RCA} input,
you can make a special XLR to RCA cable that will reduce hiss
due to the interfacing issue related to XLR and RCA.
As you point out, the DCX is 450 Euros - what is the XTA ? The cost of these are 10 times higher, last time I looked.
I think a lot of us are prepared to pay another 400-600 Euros to mod the DCX up to 'double the quality', without having the cash to go 10x, where we would no doubt, all like to be.
Many of us haven't heard alternative cross-overs/processors, so we really appreciate comparisons from audio professionals that are useful. I'm not sure a £2,000 to £3,500 alternative really qualifies as 'alternative' for many of us.
Regards,
I think a lot of us are prepared to pay another 400-600 Euros to mod the DCX up to 'double the quality', without having the cash to go 10x, where we would no doubt, all like to be.
Many of us haven't heard alternative cross-overs/processors, so we really appreciate comparisons from audio professionals that are useful. I'm not sure a £2,000 to £3,500 alternative really qualifies as 'alternative' for many of us.
Regards,