Yes. Pano, but you must have power amps that have gain control. My Adcoms do not, you ca get in trouble two ways, one way you can start trading bits until it does get into the audible area, but worse....POW.....there goes your tweets. Not a bad idea to have a bit of analog pot buffer in that chain. Case in point. Some one just GAVE me a Line 6 212 guitar amp that switches between 4 channels and guess what? Exactly that issue. The Line 6 Spider Valve. Discontinued...needed one little analog part...yep, that one.
Spider Valve Mkii 212 Master Volume Issues - Spider Valve - Line 6 Community get the idea. Imagine this at home with tiny little tweeters (-:
And with these crappy converters in this amp, low volumes actually do suck. The chips in the earliest dcx2496's can still get marginal at very low volumes, but you can't hear there any way...Unless your powrr amp is gain structured like those Adcoms.....pow!
And with these crappy converters in this amp, low volumes actually do suck. The chips in the earliest dcx2496's can still get marginal at very low volumes, but you can't hear there any way...Unless your powrr amp is gain structured like those Adcoms.....pow!
Yes, you have to to have proper gain structure when the system starts to get complex. If you have an active system then each amp should have some form of volume control to set its gain, doing anything else is silly. You can do all amps -1 if you are lucky.
What do you mean about the crappy converters? What is it about the AKM that is bad at low levels?
What do you mean about the crappy converters? What is it about the AKM that is bad at low levels?
Can people please talk in terms of LEDs instead of vague words. Just how many LEDs are typically lighting for Peteleoni? (But I have to say, hard to imagine making a music system work right without gain management capability at every stage. Pity there's no way to pad-down speakers because that would cut noise into them too.)
Peaking with an occasional 3 LEDs, I'm with Pano: at that level of through-put, the noise of the DCX is OK in my system.
Ben
Peaking with an occasional 3 LEDs, I'm with Pano: at that level of through-put, the noise of the DCX is OK in my system.
Ben
Exactly. That was precisely the point I was trying to make earlier in the thread.
This one is original Line 6 Spider valve 212. If it has a decent AKM chip in it I will be surprised. I am about to climb in it tomorrow. Even If it does it is a **** poor implementation, almost everyone says these do not sound good at low gain settings. We shall see.
The LED scale is a bit crude, but you should see 3 light on the inputs, for sure.
If you are coming in digital and not using a lot of volume control, no worries. Analog is another matter.
The main problem people have with the DCX is that the output level is higher than consumer levels. If you run that high level into an amp with no input trim, you have to turn down the signal thru the DCX. That's going to be noisy. The noise from the outputs doesn't change, but your signal is now much lower - and closer to the noise. Simple signal to noise ratio. S/N
I know it's been said many times, but it's important enough to repeat.
Maybe slightly more expensive solution as an usb to aes-ebu converter for dcx , but Mutec usb converter is what I recommend and pro audio signal leveling and signal all the way in digital domain. There is the the "low end" version mutec and with the super clock. Both very good. My dcx is with the Pilgham Audio dcx (active) mods.
This post may not mean much except to old guys who used to spend hours looking at amp outputs on their 'scopes*. Tested around 2 LEDs loud.
If you can make a 200 Hz square wave look pretty (left picture), your system is handling everything from 20 to 2000 Hz just fine, including phase. For 2kHz sq wave (right picture), 200 to 20kHz.
Here is the "obstacle course" the signal is passing through: REW software signal generator, the Breeze USB to AES gizmo mentioned in previous post (and I'm using the disrespected USB power instead of the external transformer), DCX2496 set flat, a 15 yr old ADC USB-powered I bought at the Salvation Army for $4, patch cords, 99-cent scope software for Mac OS.
Not sure of test levels, but residual distortion and crap on a sine sweep in this long chain is down roughly 90dB (flat). And flat as low as REW goes, 5 Hz.
For a person who was a bit of a digital skeptic until not long ago, I was really impressed by how good ALL the pieces in this chain must be.
Ben
*and you should know how to interpret the extraneous squiggles
If you can make a 200 Hz square wave look pretty (left picture), your system is handling everything from 20 to 2000 Hz just fine, including phase. For 2kHz sq wave (right picture), 200 to 20kHz.
Here is the "obstacle course" the signal is passing through: REW software signal generator, the Breeze USB to AES gizmo mentioned in previous post (and I'm using the disrespected USB power instead of the external transformer), DCX2496 set flat, a 15 yr old ADC USB-powered I bought at the Salvation Army for $4, patch cords, 99-cent scope software for Mac OS.
Not sure of test levels, but residual distortion and crap on a sine sweep in this long chain is down roughly 90dB (flat). And flat as low as REW goes, 5 Hz.
For a person who was a bit of a digital skeptic until not long ago, I was really impressed by how good ALL the pieces in this chain must be.
Ben
*and you should know how to interpret the extraneous squiggles
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A digital generator assemblies a series of sinewaves to make a close approximation of a squarewave.
Because the digital generator is limited by it's inherent frequency limits, it will always show ripple in the square wave.
An analogue square wave generator usually has a much higher frequency limit and the waves look much closer to a real squarewave.
Because the digital generator is limited by it's inherent frequency limits, it will always show ripple in the square wave.
An analogue square wave generator usually has a much higher frequency limit and the waves look much closer to a real squarewave.
Yes, one more reason to have low expectations.
So quite amazing to see such good square waves after passing through thousands of transistors. Actually, even small screw-ups with phase would have made these square waves look terrible.
B.
Listening last night on my electrostatic panels to the astounding recording by the Baltimore Consort, On the Banks of the Helicon, and the sound including a 2496 was absolutely immaculate.
Maybe the DBX is five times better, but I can't hear five times more perceptively. With all the shortcomings of speakers, rooms, and sources that need to be addressed, hardly makes sense to quibble with this wonderfully feature-laden DSP.
Baltimore Consort
Ben
Maybe the DBX is five times better, but I can't hear five times more perceptively. With all the shortcomings of speakers, rooms, and sources that need to be addressed, hardly makes sense to quibble with this wonderfully feature-laden DSP.
Baltimore Consort
Ben
What about pro audio?
This thread with almost 400 postings is exhausting.
I'm using my DCX for pro audio. I'm going to be upgrading my speaker system and amplifiers really soon. I'm aiming for a higher degree of sound quality for smaller indoor events and functions.
Aside from the DCX discussed here, there is a slew of other loudspeaker management systems from DBX, Ashley, Peavey, ART and more. There are also pro audio "high-end" processors from Lab Gruppen called Lake. Some of their amplifiers also have Lake processing built in. Which is what a lot of companies are doing like Powersoft Audio. And even tho the Behringer DCX is pro audio quality, from what these threads contain, it seems there is still room for improvement.
I'm after the best sound I can get out of the DCX, but I still need to retain pro audio output. Some of the upgrades and mods I've read about here actually downgrade the unit for consumer output levels. I need to avoid this. However, I still think the output stage needs improvement.
I could just go out and buy a more expensive processor. But we're talking thousands for some of the boutique-style processors. Besides that DIY is more fun.
What mods upgrades improvements can you guys recommend while still keeping pro output levels?
This thread with almost 400 postings is exhausting.
I'm using my DCX for pro audio. I'm going to be upgrading my speaker system and amplifiers really soon. I'm aiming for a higher degree of sound quality for smaller indoor events and functions.
Aside from the DCX discussed here, there is a slew of other loudspeaker management systems from DBX, Ashley, Peavey, ART and more. There are also pro audio "high-end" processors from Lab Gruppen called Lake. Some of their amplifiers also have Lake processing built in. Which is what a lot of companies are doing like Powersoft Audio. And even tho the Behringer DCX is pro audio quality, from what these threads contain, it seems there is still room for improvement.
I'm after the best sound I can get out of the DCX, but I still need to retain pro audio output. Some of the upgrades and mods I've read about here actually downgrade the unit for consumer output levels. I need to avoid this. However, I still think the output stage needs improvement.
I could just go out and buy a more expensive processor. But we're talking thousands for some of the boutique-style processors. Besides that DIY is more fun.
What mods upgrades improvements can you guys recommend while still keeping pro output levels?
One nice trick, if your source is a computer, is to go from the USB port directly (still digital) into Input A with a stereo AES signal (using a USB to AES adaptor). That way you hop over the analogy input circuits.
Since you are fussing with levels too, with the set-up described above, you run full digits into and through the DCX. Then you control the loudness with a ganged volume control somewhere downstream of the DCX.
Now and then, the DCX has hiccups. But I can't say as i've ever found it (or measured it) to be less that wonderful in sound quality.
Ben
Have a look at this:
http://www.amb.org/audio/kappadcx/
Development forum thread:
http://www.amb.org/forum/kappadcx-fully-differential-analog-board-development-t3358.html
http://www.amb.org/audio/kappadcx/
Development forum thread:
http://www.amb.org/forum/kappadcx-fully-differential-analog-board-development-t3358.html