Anybody using the new ESS Vout DAC (ES9022)? - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 23rd September 2009, 07:08 AM   #11
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Maybe the wine is there because the reciever chip powers down, or is not sending any data when no signal is present. That might cause some preceeding components to make noises when ideling. Or the ESS DAC chip is not powering down when no signal is present.
You also might find out if the logic is set to run @ 3,3 or 5V, this also could be a reason to malfunction.

About the transformers, I have a few words about them. A transformer is a reactive component, which means that it will try to resist current changes. On top of hat it also shows hysteresis, which is really bad to low level signals. I´ve heard transformers used in various ways, both as passive preamp and coupling devices in DACs, the result was always "out of any control". It is actually a peculiar thing, because you listen to it, but it seems very hard to find the right volume to play back in a natural way.
Also in my vinyl days this problem was present in MC transformers, which were way surpassed by real headamps.
To me the worst component i can think of, when put into the signal path, is a transformer, number 2 and three must be both electrolytic caps and op-amps. I´d go for a buffer of some kind, I think schematics and even Gerber files can be found on the net somewhere.
If you do go for transformers, let us know if it´s any good.

Last edited by Kurt von Kubik; 23rd September 2009 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 23rd September 2009, 12:04 PM   #12
jkeny is offline jkeny  Ireland
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Kurt,
You missed my thread on transformers as output devices - I found this particular transformer to sound excellent, best sound I ever heard from a DAC! I think you should review your opinions & try some good quality ones!
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Old 23rd September 2009, 08:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkeny View Post
Kurt,
You missed my thread on transformers as output devices - I found this particular transformer to sound excellent, best sound I ever heard from a DAC! I think you should review your opinions & try some good quality ones!
Ive tried out very expensive ones for my MC cartridge.
Ive also lately tried out a passive preamplifier @ a terrible price but, I must say that I have no urge at all to try out transformers again.

Btw I did see your transformer thread.

Transmission transformers are in some way a 2 edged sword.
They do provide insulation, but they are prone to hysteresis. Thus youll see i.e. high end electred microphones made in 2 different versions, namely normal or TL (Transformer Less). The normal type can be used anywhere without any hum probs. The TL version should not be attached to a studio environment, where a lot of gear is connected together without thought about loop probs.
If you ever should get the opportunity to listen to a "normal", and a TL version of the same mike, you really should try that out.
Then youd know about transformers in your signal path, even if they are state of the art.
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Old 23rd September 2009, 10:07 PM   #14
NicMac is offline NicMac  Italy
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Hi KvK and Hurtig,
How come this continuos interest in the ESS dac chips? Are you considering to change your DAC circuit (Elab digilog, I think it is named) to accommodate one of these chips in place of the "oldish" Crystal?
Nic
[Edited] P.S. Sorry jkeny for going a bit OT. I won't make anymore noise.

Last edited by NicMac; 23rd September 2009 at 10:10 PM. Reason: [OT]
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Old 24th September 2009, 07:22 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicMac View Post
Hi KvK and Hurtig,
How come this continuos interest in the ESS dac chips? Are you considering to change your DAC circuit (Elab digilog, I think it is named) to accommodate one of these chips in place of the "oldish" Crystal?
Nic
[Edited] P.S. Sorry jkeny for going a bit OT. I won't make anymore noise.
No!
The digilog is designed arround CS4398, and will eventually be replaced with the next Crystal chip, which probably will be just that same, but with 32 bit wordlength, and also the AD1896/SRC4192 will then be replaced with 32 bit types, probably of the same breed.

But we are planning to do a low cost, easy assembly 32 bit DAC with upsampling, where the Sabre could be considered. But most likely it will be CS8416, CS8421 and AK4399, and then an analog stage with 2 choises of amplification, a standard op-amp operated one, and a non feed back design featuring AD844 on the same PCB.
When done gerber files, partslist and schematics can be found on the internet.

Then! ESS techs chips are of course of interest to us, the Sabre 32 chip shows faboulus data if THD and DNR are considered, we might not be able to squeeze that through any analog amplifier though. We might already have problems to equal the AK4399 IRL, which shows a 123 dB DNR and a 105 dB THD+N.
The most interesting part though, is how it was done. 6dB can be concidered as a result of parallelling 4 DACs p.ch. That leaves us 130 dB DNR if compared to other stereo DAC chips. How this was achieved I do not know, but rumours say that its done by high speed oversampling @1MHz or so.
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Old 24th September 2009, 07:46 AM   #16
jkeny is offline jkeny  Ireland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicMac View Post
Hi KvK and Hurtig,
How come this continuos interest in the ESS dac chips? Are you considering to change your DAC circuit (Elab digilog, I think it is named) to accommodate one of these chips in place of the "oldish" Crystal?
Nic
[Edited] P.S. Sorry jkeny for going a bit OT. I won't make anymore noise.
OK, Nic, I was going to say to the two of you to take this outside but there is nobody posting on topic on this thread - I take it nobody has tried these ESS DACs then!
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Old 29th November 2009, 07:53 PM   #17
jkeny is offline jkeny  Ireland
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I know this thread had no posters who were using the Sabre ES9022 DAC but I've just seen RayCtech mention it on the MicroSd thread & I wanted to report back here that I have got excellent sound out of this since I solved some noise issues with my Musiland transport Musiland 01US USB DAC I2S into Sabre

So just for completion, I can say this ES9022 is well worth the $2 asking price !!

Last edited by jkeny; 29th November 2009 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 09:09 PM   #18
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I'm curious, sound wise if anyone has compared this to the AK4421 or WM8524? I know there is difference in specs, but interest in sound differences.
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Old 10th December 2009, 10:17 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Hurtig View Post
Hi Jkeny....
Please do not take this the wrong way. But if you don't know how to use an scope, what is the chance of you building a high performance DAC-system?
Making a DAC chip work in a simple implementation is quite easy. But achieving optimum performance is lot harder than just copying a app.note (Even thouhg many commercial DAC's really just is a app.note-style implementation). Building such a DAC, is much more complicated than using a scope.

Anyway... Where did you buy these ESS chips?? And what is the price?? Is it possible to get a datasheet??
Hi, Product and support available from the European stockist Ismosys
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Old 13th December 2009, 07:27 AM   #20
EUVL is offline EUVL  Europe
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Good to see you here, ismosys.

Perhaps you can help your many (potential) customers here. Can you tell us how to get hold of a datasheet for ESS9022, ESS9016 and ESS9018 ? Can we get them from you ? Or do we have to purchase a chip first before we are allowed ?

I have mailed ESS umteen times and got no reply. How can I decide to spend 65 USD on a chip if I am now even allowed to know how to connect them ?


Many thanks,
Patrick

Last edited by EUVL; 13th December 2009 at 07:32 AM.
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