No "AIR" in class D? Yes or No?

Joel Wesseling · 6th February 2013, 12:20 PM

My question is based on several listening experiences and wondering how others hear it and maybe I need up to date experience..

6-7 years ago I was travelling around and demo-ing a lot of gear and many set-ups had digital amps connected.. One was NHT-XD one other was 801D with expensive class D..

The Major dissapointment with these system was that the music had no "AIR" which means it was grossly missing HI frequency detail.

Is this still a problem? Or was it never really an issue with some of you? Is there now improvements?

Thanks, Joel

KatieandDad · 6th February 2013, 12:30 PM

Class D is coming along in leaps and bounds, it is improving with every day.

At the last call, Class D can be a little uncompromising, it can be dependant on load.

Undoubtedly these issues will be overcome in time.

theAnonymous1 · 6th February 2013, 12:50 PM

I don't know what defines "air", but I've never found Class-D lacking.

Pano · 6th February 2013, 05:19 PM

Some say - and I tend to agree - that Class-D does not have the depth of image that good tube or Class-A SS does. "Air" I don't know. May depend on the output filter design.

4real · 6th February 2013, 05:24 PM

Well, if your talking about the lots of air to move along the heat sink, then yes, Class D does not "have" (or rather "need") a lot of air. Otherwise: no

Boscoe · 6th February 2013, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Wesseling

My question is based on several listening experiences and wondering how others hear it and maybe I need up to date experience..

6-7 years ago I was travelling around and demo-ing a lot of gear and many set-ups had digital amps connected.. One was NHT-XD one other was 801D with expensive class D..

The Major dissapointment with these system was that the music had no "AIR" which means it was grossly missing HI frequency detail.

Is this still a problem? Or was it never really an issue with some of you? Is there now improvements?

Thanks, Joel

There's lots of air in my class D amplifier. In fact it's how it stays cool...

Joel Wesseling · 6th February 2013, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boscoe

There's lots of air in my class D amplifier. In fact it's how it stays cool...

Good to know that.

Tell me more about class D reproduction of the ambient information that is stored in recordings..

cotdt · 6th February 2013, 08:03 PM

My modded Tripath amp has plenty of air, but my Hypex UcD does not (I call it "polite treble"), even after mods. It really depends on the amp.

You only hear the top end air of instruments on certain tweeters, so most won't be able to hear it anyway. You also need the ability to hear beyond 10kHz, which a lot of people cannot unless a test tone is played very loud.

Even with my Class A SET amp, certain tubes have an excellent airyness with lots of top end detail, while other tubes simply don't.

This applies to Class A SS amps as well. Some do it well, others don't.

ssportclay · 6th February 2013, 08:16 PM

Airiness is system dependent. For class D amplification, you might want to look into the Texas Instrument chips which seem to be getting more attention lately especially the TPA3116D2 which is their newest top of the heap.

nigelwright7557 · 6th February 2013, 08:24 PM

I have designed class ab and class d amplifiers and have always had trouble telling the difference when listening.

There is a myth going around that all class d is good for is bass.
This really isn't true.

Perhaps early designs were poor but modern designs are very good.

Just because class d amps are cheaper doesn't make them worse.

6th February 2013, 12:20 PM	#1
Joel Wesseling diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Courtice, Ontario	No "AIR" in class D? Yes or No? My question is based on several listening experiences and wondering how others hear it and maybe I need up to date experience.. 6-7 years ago I was travelling around and demo-ing a lot of gear and many set-ups had digital amps connected.. One was NHT-XD one other was 801D with expensive class D.. The Major dissapointment with these system was that the music had no "AIR" which means it was grossly missing HI frequency detail. Is this still a problem? Or was it never really an issue with some of you? Is there now improvements? Thanks, Joel

6th February 2013, 12:50 PM	#3
theAnonymous1 diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Anonymityville	I don't know what defines "air", but I've never found Class-D lacking. __________________ "If you don't like funerals don't kick sand in Ninja's face." - Ninja

6th February 2013, 05:19 PM	#4
Pano diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: North Carolina Blog Entries: 4	Some say - and I tend to agree - that Class-D does not have the depth of image that good tube or Class-A SS does. "Air" I don't know. May depend on the output filter design. __________________ Take the Speaker Voltage Test!

6th February 2013, 08:24 PM	#10
nigelwright7557 diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Carlisle, England	I have designed class ab and class d amplifiers and have always had trouble telling the difference when listening. There is a myth going around that all class d is good for is bass. This really isn't true. Perhaps early designs were poor but modern designs are very good. Just because class d amps are cheaper doesn't make them worse. __________________ http://www.murtonpikesystems.co.uk PCBCAD50 pcb design software.

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6th February 2013, 12:30 PM	#2
KatieandDad diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: UK	Class D is coming along in leaps and bounds, it is improving with every day. At the last call, Class D can be a little uncompromising, it can be dependant on load. Undoubtedly these issues will be overcome in time.

6th February 2013, 05:24 PM	#5
4real diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Arnhem	Well, if your talking about the lots of air to move along the heat sink, then yes, Class D does not "have" (or rather "need") a lot of air. Otherwise: no

6th February 2013, 08:03 PM	#8
cotdt diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2005	My modded Tripath amp has plenty of air, but my Hypex UcD does not (I call it "polite treble"), even after mods. It really depends on the amp. You only hear the top end air of instruments on certain tweeters, so most won't be able to hear it anyway. You also need the ability to hear beyond 10kHz, which a lot of people cannot unless a test tone is played very loud. Even with my Class A SET amp, certain tubes have an excellent airyness with lots of top end detail, while other tubes simply don't. This applies to Class A SS amps as well. Some do it well, others don't.

6th February 2013, 08:16 PM	#9
ssportclay diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2010	Airiness is system dependent. For class D amplification, you might want to look into the Texas Instrument chips which seem to be getting more attention lately especially the TPA3116D2 which is their newest top of the heap.

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