I agree, but you can never actually know for sure. in the end it still comes to a leap of faith. the Genesis link is interesting because it mentions something that (if memory serves me well) was also discussed here at one time: large capacitance on the filtering bank can do more good than harm.Please, forgive-me, i had no time yet to read all the stuff, English is not my native language, it is brain consuming for me...
For the previous, about subjective opinions of strangers, it is possible to read between lines, sometimes, and get a little idea of the poster preferences and listening accuracy, with some details. Better if you can correlate opinions subjective feelings of several people.
I suddenly feel the urge to not visit this thread for a while
see you later.In addition to the two camps, there is also two other groups considering Hypex amps. The ones who have owned UCD HG amps and the the ones who are considering Hypex amp the first time.
To be honest the difference between those tho is not that obvious. Its like looking at a monitor of resolution of 4000 x 2250 comparing it to monitor with resolution of 40000 x 22500. Who can really see the difference in normal conditions and imperfect eye sight? What difference can it make when watching a video realtime? In both products there is no additional artificial boost in contrast or color vibrance or saturation, or anything like that.
That said, i must say, both product lines are excellent. Someone with no experience on Hypex amps might take it the wrong way. NCore is just better technically of the two. Its up to the user to realize that extra resolution available. Some just don't like it and to be honest, i don't think Hypex amp are for them. They would not consider (speculative) if the problem is in the audio source, the records, speakers, or the room acoustics. It must be the nCore, since its the last thing added to the system.
I think migrating to Hypex amps may also suggest that maybe some other components needs changing. I have found that if there needs to be some sort of "sound", revealing speakers and "sounding" source is the best companion for nCore. And imo, that is where the sound tuning controls should be, in the source, it being a DSP chip, equaliser, or an esoteric highend cd-player.
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correction: I meant the other way round.
to the above poster: you mean the difference between Hypex and NCORE?
I've personally done experiments on my (UCD-based) system to determine the limit of audibility for higher-order harmonics. it wasn't a proper test (for one, harmonic audibility is SPL-dependant, and so is speaker distortion, obviously, and I ignored that). I ran out of patience but the preliminary conclusion was that even with sines at moderate SPL, I overestimated the limit of audibility. the relevance of that with real music is questionable. some studies even say that with music, harmonic audibility threshold is higher than the most pessimistic estimate. I really don't know for sure, I'd say that on quiet, non-complex passages it can be quite audible.
there have been attempts to demonstrate the existence of time-domain distortion that doesn't show in frequency-domain measurements. a feeble attempt was the flawed Nordost test of 4 years ago. not scientifically convincing and poisoned with obvious hand-waving from the marketing guys. there were some similar tests done by user AP2 here. they may have something going on for them but there's still a long way to go.
There are a bunch but here are a couple UCD400 vs Ncore question
another http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108953.msg1142386#msg1142386
I've also heard them side by side too....
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and since I linked the 6moons review/interview... what do you know...
You and I are both tube-heads! I too had always associated distortion-free with emotionless, sterile and clinical until I met the owner of FM Acoustics, Mr. Manuel Huber (as colorful a character as you've ever met!). He explained to me the difference between real music reproduction and euphonic distortion, a conversation I've remembered ever since. It's the difference between a freshly shucked Belon oyster and the cooked Singapore oyster omelette with hot chili sauce.
(Gary Koh, Genesis owner)
and since most won't have the patience to dig through the typical heaps of 6moons hand waving (as proved above), here's the portion about the supply:
6moons audioreviews: Genesis Reference Amplifier SideBar 1
You and I are both tube-heads! I too had always associated distortion-free with emotionless, sterile and clinical until I met the owner of FM Acoustics, Mr. Manuel Huber (as colorful a character as you've ever met!). He explained to me the difference between real music reproduction and euphonic distortion, a conversation I've remembered ever since. It's the difference between a freshly shucked Belon oyster and the cooked Singapore oyster omelette with hot chili sauce.
(Gary Koh, Genesis owner)
and since most won't have the patience to dig through the typical heaps of 6moons hand waving (as proved above), here's the portion about the supply:
6moons audioreviews: Genesis Reference Amplifier SideBar 1
this:
I don't think there is any significant difference over the UCD400s in the bass and midrange. However, I have convinced myself that the treble is just a bit smoother, detailed, and easier on the ears. Being an old grizzled engineer, I would love to do a double-blind test to prove what I just said, but I do not have the necessary equipment to perform one. When I switched from an Audio Research Classic 60 tube amp to the UCDs a few years ago there was no doubt about the difference, but I am far less confident about the audible improvement of Ncores over UCDs. Of course, I am confident my 71 year old ears are not as golden as most on this forum, so my observations may not be worth much.
and how that helps me in my mental gymnastics LOL
more exactly, the wishful thinking that I do, trying to convince myself my UCD is enough
now seriously, I don't doubt NCORE sounds better. it's just that I still keep wondering if that would be so in my not-so-neutral system. but, as I said, I decided to just wait and enjoy the music meanwhile.
It would be useless to enter in this old sea snake, scientists against audiophiles...
(read my signature)
I'm neither the one neither the other, or, better, a little of the two.
I mean, maths are good to design and measurements to see what happens and understand more.
But our ears and brains are pretty complex interface in the make believe game of audio reproduction, and, during my life, i had several occasion to assist at the evolution of measurements practices, discovering new kind of distortions and to improve my listening accuracy etc...
So, as far i'm concerned, i lie on both, and use to listen a lot at the end of my design processes and always get some real improvements in this. That was the reason of my questions, answers will be taken with precautions, of course, i don't believe in marketing poetry ;-)
But each time you ask a single question in this forum(with something behind you mind), you get silly flame wars instead of simple responses to them.
To respond to your question, and on my point of view, yes "tons of theory" are applicable (when verified) but they NEVER cover the all story, reason why nothing, NEVER, is perfect.
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patronizing surely makes one feel nice.
look, it's just a few days ago that I asked on another forum a rather subjective question about some DACs. I was instantly annihilated by a hoard of objectivists.
coming to think of it, I'm not even sure they weren't right in some ways.
being on DIYaudio and audio forums in general since around 2000, I realized in time that not getting the answers (or in some cases, not hearing what one wants to hear) is part of the game and one must learn to deal with that. sometimes, giving frank answers can even earn one opprobrium. displaying dissatisfaction for not getting the answers is generally as silly as not getting them. trust me, been there.
your questions have been asked before and IMO the answerers seemed highly biased by facts that are totally unrelated to audio quality and more related to ego issues. I'd be more than happy to read a report from someone who seems like a balanced person, though.
I'll make it even easier for you and summarize: based on what I read here most NCORE users don't use linear supplies.
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Interesting indeed. This is pretty much same as my experience. And i have read quite the same on one other review too. The review is in finnish, but maybe you can get something out of it with a translator:
Hypex NCore NC400 -vahvistinmoduulit testissä | AudioVideo.fi
However, what can one expect? UCD is supposed to be very neutral amp. nCore is supposed to be very very neutral. If Hypex makes amp that is very very very very neutral, i won't buy it. I am now good with the level of neutral. Can't go more neutral so that I can still hear it.
Infact, if UCD and nCore sounded very different, that could be considered a failure for Hypex. They are supposed to sound quite the same. Imo, this just supports the fact that Hypex knows what they are doing.
One big difference between UCD and nCore (as in performance) is the output impedance. UCD has it somewhere around 20-150 mOhm and nCore has just 1-3 mOhm. Actually, could that better impedance behaviour at higher freqs (>2kHz) be the one thing that people are hearing when comparing UCD and nCore?
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+-35-75V, lots of current, at least 4700 uF caps per rail
+-16-25V, 40 mA, low ripple
16-25V, 70mA floating (optional)
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