Hypex Ncore

[ti33er]

Thanks for replying.

Investing in a long term gratifying amplifier on limited funds these days, is a process that I need to be more cautious going about - I went through literally hundreds of items of AV/HiFi kit in my 30's before I got married, then had offspring which has really put a dampener on non-essential spending :-(

Things that have discouraged me from the nc400 are generic statements like 'neutral, acetic, dead-pan, bass dissimilar from mids, lacking midrange body etc.' from various sources, which I have only been able to read about and not experience for myself

What has recently reinvigorated my Hypex interest was reading about the WIMA Capacitor mods claim of bringing it closer to the nc1200, which fills in all the gaps where the nc400 really falls short?

My ideal sonic character is good clean tube-like highs and transparent, yet still on the warmer side of midrange (belly) and tight, yet full bodied sounding bass - I dislike too neutral/cool, or clinical signatures which, to my ears loses the soul of most music .. KRELL, ROTEL, PARASOUND and Class D amps like PRIMARE are in the category of 'cool' too my ears.

Currently use biamped 100X4R Tag McLaren amplifiers which are modified with 60000uF of capacitor banks per monoblock. These sound pretty good and image well, but I think I could do with more current to get the best out of these Monitor Audio PL200 - I used to have the Tag 250MR monoblock which were my favourite amp to date, but still not perfect and Tube/Valve amps are not practical, otherwise this is the most likely route I would be taking with the PL speakers!

So on a restricted budget, it's really down to nc400 which have some tube-like properties in the HF at least and appealing taught/textured bass properties; or aesthetically pornographic JOB-225 which 'sounds' like the more pleasing sonic amp by description-by-default that would cost the same and may be as good as the nc400 with WIMA mod (provided WIMA improves the mids)!

I would ideally like to hear the nc400 modded and un-modded...and JOB-225, so I could make an experienced decision before just jumping in head first like I always have in the past...(for once in my impulsive life)!!!

I am in West London if anybody that has either of these, lives nearby?

Thanks

 

[ti33er]

Thanks for replying.

Investing in a long term gratifying amplifier on limited funds these days, is a process that I need to be more cautious going about - I went through literally hundreds of items of AV/HiFi kit in my 30's before I got married, then had offspring which has really put a dampener on non-essential spending :-(

Things that have discouraged me from the nc400 are generic statements like 'neutral, acetic, dead-pan, bass dissimilar from mids, lacking midrange body etc.' from various sources, which I have only been able to read about and not experience for myself

What has recently reinvigorated my Hypex interest was reading about the WIMA Capacitor mods claim of bringing it closer to the nc1200, which fills in all the gaps where the nc400 really falls short?

My ideal sonic character is good clean tube-like highs and transparent, yet still on the warmer side of midrange (belly) and tight, yet full bodied sounding bass - I dislike too neutral/cool, or clinical signatures which, to my ears loses the soul of most music .. KRELL, ROTEL, PARASOUND and Class D amps like PRIMARE are in the category of 'cool' too my ears.

Currently use biamped 100X4R Tag McLaren amplifiers which are modified with 60000uF of capacitor banks per monoblock. These sound pretty good and image well, but I think I could do with more current to get the best out of these Monitor Audio PL200 - I used to have the Tag 250MR monoblock which were my favourite amp to date, but still not perfect and Tube/Valve amps are not practical, otherwise this is the most likely route I would be taking with the PL speakers!

So on a restricted budget, it's really down to nc400 which have some tube-like properties in the HF at least and appealing taught/textured bass properties; or aesthetically pornographic JOB-225 which 'sounds' like the more pleasing sonic amp by description-by-default that would cost the same and may be as good as the nc400 with WIMA mod (provided WIMA improves the mids)!

I would ideally like to hear the nc400 modded and un-modded...and JOB-225, so I could make an experienced decision before just jumping in head first like I always have in the past...(for once in my impulsive life)!!!

I am in West London if anybody that has either of these, lives nearby?

Thanks

 

[cjf]

Thanks for the response Julf

It only matters if you care about absolute polarity (you shouldn't).

Mind explaining this a bit more, not sure I follow. Does this mean if I did care I should do the flip at the output destined for the Neg terminal instead?

I would worry about it forming a loop that picks up stuff. Would it be possible to rotate one of the amp modules so that the output terminals would be closer to the output terminals of the other module?

I dont think changing the orientation of one module will work in my case due to the length of cabling coming from the SMPS not being long enough to reach unless I chose to cut a different hole in the divider wall I have in place which separates the SMPS's from the amp modules in my chassis design.

Would the gauge of wire used in this connection to the 150nF Cap be of any certain size? Not sure if this "link" that is connectiing the two modules together sees fairly high voltages or not where a heavier gauge wire would be needed or not?

Can you offer any input on this question from my original post?

4. In the digram I have the "J6" connection on both modules as the primary output wires going to the terminals for the speakers. At the same time I have "J5" going to chassis ground. Does this look right?

Thanks again

 

[cjf]

Why not ditch the caveman passive crossovers and replace it with the hypex DLCP?
C

Not sure if this was meant to be in response to my post or not? If so, while I think the DLCP is a pretty nifty unit I dont think I would be too fond of hacking open a new set of speakers that cost as much as a small car to implement it . Not to mention the waste of time put in by the poor slob at the speaker factory who slaved over getting the caveman crossovers just right.

 

[ro9397]

...This brings me to my question. Since I would like to continue using my current Amp hardware I would then need to considering bridging them if I ended up choosing a speaker that doesn't support Bi-Amping. I have read and looked over the Hypex UCD documentation which talks about how to go about bridging the amps but unfortunatly I am still left a bit confused on the wiring aspects of doing this.

I have created the following caveman drawing below of what I understand needs to be done to accomplish this task and was hoping some folks here who are familiar with the process can maybe help guide me down the right path.

A few questions:

1. In terms of wiring the Input of one of the Amp modules 180deg out of Phase from the other does anyone know if it matters which Amp module in a given chassis should be wired this way? In the drawing below I have choosen to wire the module on the right which is destined for the "Positive" terminal of the speaker binding post out of phase. Is this OK or should the Amp module going to the "Neg" terminal recieve this configuration instead?

Input polarity per NC400 matters only in this way:
NC400 with normal input polarity: + speaker output = speaker +
NC400 with inverted input polarity: + speaker output = speaker -

2. As an alternative, I was curious to know if there would be any difference if I choose to instead handle the Out of Phase wiring of the XLR at the cable itself. In other words, if I didn't touch any of the internal amp XLR wiring and instead aquired an XLR cable that goes from the Preamp to the Amp which was terminated in such a way that it would make Pin # 2 & # 3 swapped within the that cable instead.

I doubt it matters. What is the motive for such wiring?

3. In terms of the Output cabling that is supposed to have a 150nF cap inline, does the length of cable used in that connection matter? Would a cable as long as the one in the picture (lime green) have any negative effects? Should it be MUCH shorter?

Hypex tech said this cap synchronizes NC400 outputs, and said to wire it as close as possible to NC400 speaker + outputs. He did not state a maximum conductor length. I thought this cap upgrade was significant.

IMO non-polarized caps like this do sound better in one direction vs. the other. I would recommend, for your own amp, listening to the cap in series in both directions, mark the negative side in the preferred direction, and install accordingly.

4. In the digram I have the "J6" connection on both modules as the primary output wires going to the terminals for the speakers. At the same time I have "J5" going to chassis ground. Does this look right?

Chassis earth is normally accomplished via the mains power input, IEC ground, etc. The mains cable ground shorts to the wall socket which shorts to a copper rod stuck in the earth (in proper modern wiring). Why rather use the speaker negative output?

I'm happy with Bruno's preferred Class II floating chassis, requiring two layers of insulation on all mains conductors. Class II definitely is quieter in case of unbalanced source, and the longer the IC the more the advantage. Unbalanced source requires Bruno's recommended quasi-balanced IC or close second best:
Unbalanced source > RCA/XLR adapter > balanced IC > NC400

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

[/QUOTE]

Best wishes with your amps!

 

[Julf]

Mind explaining this a bit more, not sure I follow. Does this mean if I did care I should do the flip at the output destined for the Neg terminal instead?

Yes. But are you sure the rest of your chain maintains absolute polarity? And remember that a recording can only have a "correct" polarity if it is recorded with a single microphone.

Would the gauge of wire used in this connection to the 150nF Cap be of any certain size? Not sure if this "link" that is connectiing the two modules together sees fairly high voltages or not where a heavier gauge wire would be needed or not?

No need for heavy gauge, but length is an issue, as is routing - avoid going near any inductors.

4. In the digram I have the "J6" connection on both modules as the primary output wires going to the terminals for the speakers. At the same time I have "J5" going to chassis ground.

Why are you connecting the J5's to the chassis ground?

 

[Julf]

Things that have discouraged me from the nc400 are generic statements like 'neutral, acetic, dead-pan, bass dissimilar from mids, lacking midrange body etc.' from various sources, which I have only been able to read about and not experience for myself

Only way to tell is by listening for yourself. Subjective evaluations are just that - subjective.

My ideal sonic character is good clean tube-like highs and transparent, yet still on the warmer side of midrange (belly) and tight, yet full bodied sounding bass - I dislike too neutral/cool, or clinical signatures which, to my ears loses the soul of most music .. KRELL, ROTEL, PARASOUND and Class D amps like PRIMARE are in the category of 'cool' too my ears.

Currently use biamped 100X4R Tag McLaren amplifiers which are modified with 60000uF of capacitor banks per monoblock. These sound pretty good and image well, but I think I could do with more current to get the best out of these Monitor Audio PL200 - I used to have the Tag 250MR monoblock which were my favourite amp to date, but still not perfect and Tube/Valve amps are not practical, otherwise this is the most likely route I would be taking with the PL speakers!

Sounds like the perfect solution for you would be a tube preamp that would provide the "warmth".

 

[Julf]

cjf, going back to your original issue:

Since I would like to continue using my current Amp hardware I would then need to considering bridging them if I ended up choosing a speaker that doesn't support Bi-Amping.

Bridging only makes sense if your amps are voltage-limited, but not if you are current-limited, *and* you actually need more power than a single amp can provide. Thus it only makes sense for relatively high-impedance speakers, and might actually be worse than a single amp if the speaker impedance is low.

 

[ti33er]

Thanks for the reply

Does anyone know which SMPS1200 "Dual NC400 + SMPS1200" power supply they are referring to here ghentaudio --- Hypex & NCore NC400 NC1200 Stereo Case-kit , so I could create a Bi-Amp situation?

The HYPEX Shop https://www.hypexshop.com/shop/shop.jsp?groupID=117 has many SMPS1200, but none describe use for the nc400 ! ?

 

[Theodosis O.]

SMPS1200A400

 

[Speedskater]

is a subjective analysis. Only a measurement is objective.

Well no.

An objective listening test is:
Do A and B sound the same or different?

An subjective listening test is:
Given that it has been shown that A and B do indeed sound different:
Do you prefer the sound of A or B?

 

[ti33er]

Hi again and thanks for responding about the SMPS1200/400

Is this PSU worse than the SMPS600 ? I noticed there is an SMPS1200A700 also?

Just trying to pre plan a potential nc400 BiAmp rig and don't want to be limited, but like the idea for a dual mono case

Out if interest, how many of us have BiAmp rigs and is it worth the extra $$$

Thanks

 

[Rajapruk]

I have biamp config, and in my system it is worh it.
SMPS1200A400 is the one to use with ncore, not A700.

 

[jhmkoop]

Has anybody ever heard about using current feedback (from the loudspeakers) with the Ncore modules? It seems that in the KII Three this is done

 

[pos]

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/clas...ransconductance-current-output-amplifier.html

 

[ti33er]

I have biamp config, and in my system it is worh it.
SMPS1200A400 is the one to use with ncore, not A700.

Thank you for the feedback

The SMPS1200/400 which powers 2 x modules cost the same as the SMPS600, so is it an inferior PSU for the nc400, which is my only worry?

 

[diyaudnut]

had missed posting pic of my 8chs of Hypex amps for an active 4W setup

 

[Rajapruk]

Thank you for the feedback

The SMPS1200/400 which powers 2 x modules cost the same as the SMPS600, so is it an inferior PSU for the nc400, which is my only worry?

the smps1200 is used with the high-end nc1200, so I do not think it is inferior, I think it is better (but I do not know this).
the drawback is that you get 5W more heat dissipation from each nc400. The smps600 has an extra regulated powerline reducing the voltage regulation that needs to be done by nc400. But my guess is that nc400 has better regulator than smps600, because it has the LEDs like an "superregulator".

 

[ti33er]

Thanks. Do we know how much 5W translates into Celcius on the nc400 though!? 8-/

Still can't help but wonder, it's been 3-4 years for nc400 ....when is Meneer Bruno releasing his next version, or tweak to this nc400?

I read him considering changing the tone from, possibly, a bit less dead-pan!

 

[Julf]

the smps1200 is used with the high-end nc1200, so I do not think it is inferior, I think it is better (but I do not know this).

There is no real reason for it to be better or worse - it is very much the same technology.