Like Kristleifur says this needs a whole bunch of different parts, but the result is stunning! You get dynamics like things are happening straight in front of you for real!
The 41hz AMP11-HV is a standard kit which is suitable for up to 52Vdc, it also uses the TC2000/2001/2002 chip, but then combined with the much more capable and modern power stage STA517B. It is still very hard to get this chip and 41hz sells them for a very fair price.
I have dared to mod a 41hz AMP4 to work up to 52Vdc and so I would dare to mod a Sure board to handle this kind of voltage, no problem. If you know what you're doing it's not half as scary...
Here's my 52Vdc AMP4:
This amp is roughly 160W/ch at an 8 ohm load and 50Vdc supply voltage. The AMP11-HV is a mono amp and is roughly 275W/ch.
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That's awesome v-bro*. About to do the power input cap for my TA2050 in line with my 24v 14amp 350w PSU which should be arriving soon. Yep, I am a novice, its true... but why you using 4 of them ? I have a couple of these to hand, they look way smaller than the ones others are using on these pages. Are these of the correct rating ? Would be grateful for any feedback on specs and wiring them in.
Thanks
Thanks
They are certainly suitable, but overkill when you are using a switch mode power supply. It can even give problems for the stability of the power supply.
For a 50/60hz transformer based power supply (a standard power supply) it is almost the more the better. At the low frequency AC voltage the need for a lot of capacitance is higher because it takes more to make it steady and ripple free. A switch mode power supply on the other hand works at a high frequency and therefore needs just a little bit of capacitance to fill in the gaps.
Although, as for the capacitance for a standard power supply, there is a limit to what is sane and where it becomes insane.
Also, caps are being charged when voltage is applied to them on the turn on of the power supply. This charging goes very fast and can cause a tremendous current to flow (socalled inrush current). On this current all parts that are in line with the caps have to be able to handle that current (think about the rectifier bridge for instance) Most modern parts can handle it, but the more modern caps charge faster too (low ESR, high ripple) so you certainly need to take that into account. Keep in mind with this that this current peak is way higher than the current the device/amplifier is consuming on operation!
I like (even though I know I often exaggerate it) to beef up the power supply parts on my designs. I just have best experiences with a steady as a rock supply voltage which is as 'stiff' as can be. The advantage for your amplifier is like a good solid surface to jump from for a high jumping athlete, where many commercial power supplies are designed quite weak which is comparable with a swampy or sandy surface to jump from for the high jumping athlete. Make an educated guess from which surface the athlete jumps higher? An amplifier with a rock solid supply voltage sounds more dynamic and is more stable than an amplifier on a soggy supply voltage.
Here's a lot more on the subject:
Elliott Sound Products - Linear Power Supply Design
For a 50/60hz transformer based power supply (a standard power supply) it is almost the more the better. At the low frequency AC voltage the need for a lot of capacitance is higher because it takes more to make it steady and ripple free. A switch mode power supply on the other hand works at a high frequency and therefore needs just a little bit of capacitance to fill in the gaps.
Although, as for the capacitance for a standard power supply, there is a limit to what is sane and where it becomes insane.
Also, caps are being charged when voltage is applied to them on the turn on of the power supply. This charging goes very fast and can cause a tremendous current to flow (socalled inrush current). On this current all parts that are in line with the caps have to be able to handle that current (think about the rectifier bridge for instance) Most modern parts can handle it, but the more modern caps charge faster too (low ESR, high ripple) so you certainly need to take that into account. Keep in mind with this that this current peak is way higher than the current the device/amplifier is consuming on operation!
I like (even though I know I often exaggerate it) to beef up the power supply parts on my designs. I just have best experiences with a steady as a rock supply voltage which is as 'stiff' as can be. The advantage for your amplifier is like a good solid surface to jump from for a high jumping athlete, where many commercial power supplies are designed quite weak which is comparable with a swampy or sandy surface to jump from for the high jumping athlete. Make an educated guess from which surface the athlete jumps higher? An amplifier with a rock solid supply voltage sounds more dynamic and is more stable than an amplifier on a soggy supply voltage.
Here's a lot more on the subject:
Elliott Sound Products - Linear Power Supply Design
No Zero One, I've changed the input caps like everyone else, but the 'outs' seem to be a bit of a grey area... Have circled in red where they are, not sure if all the components here should be changed though.
Those caps have NOTHING to do with audio, they just need to be adequate in filtering away the switching frequency. Of course the values can affect the in-band performance (in-band as in 'in the audio frequency band') Changing them for large 'Audiophile' grade caps can introduce a multitude of problems on the stability of the amp and bares an even greater risk of increasing the EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference) This kind of emission is better prevented than cured. As a matter of fact they are notoriously hard to suppress once created.
Electromagnetic Interference (EMI)
The ones on the Sure board (unlike most of the components) look more than decent and adequate for the job. I would severely recommend not to change them for anything else unless you know exactly what you are doing!
Wow ! So with a switching PSU I don't need any caps ?! - hoorah !!! Thanks for the info.
Input caps: put Obbligatos 0.47uf on the channel driving the tweeter, and 2.0uf on the other driving the bass. Sound was not very nice, vocals were muddy and honked slightly. Just changed the 2.0uf for a cheap 0.47uf - much much better.... Which makes worried about why people are using 2.2uf's ? Surely there can not be a great difference between 2.0 and 2.2 ?
There you go, expensive caps are certainly not always bliss!
I wanted to add that using 0.47 doesn't mean you can omit the tweeter filter! Just to warn anyone with no understanding of the matter, this value still puts out a lot of bass, but there is a definite size advantage, sure...
The value can be calculated, it's a simple passive line level filter. When you take the input impedance into account you can make a pretty accurate cut off frequency calculation.
I can tell you from experience that 2uF certainly isn't the cause of lack of bass. So it has got to be the make. Basically high quality caps have lower loss in general and sometimes/often this phenomenon is dominant in the higher frequency spectrum....
I remember trying Obbligatos on a T-Amp some years ago and not liking the result. They were not very clear and they were a little harsh. Today I would burn them in for at least 20 hours before making a decision. Caps get noticeably better during the first 20 - 50 hours and continue to improve for 100 hours or so.
-dr_vega
Currently I am burning in my module and I have noticed some harshness at certain frequencies, this is very mild but is probably only obvious as overall everything is so clear otherwise. I guess one would describe it as a very mild distortion as far as i can tell it is in the upper bass lower mid region. I have about 36 hrs on the module so far, but it has been burnt in at very low volume.
I am wondering if this is input caps (they have been replaced by foil ones) or perhaps the standard tank caps or something else.
It is certainly not power supply as it is 24v battery on large 18 AH cells.
Another possibility is it may be fan related as it is still on the standard supply.
Of course maybe I am hearing the limits of my iPod nano too, at the moment I can't check on another source, but i will tomorrow.
Any thoughts?
I am wondering if this is input caps (they have been replaced by foil ones) or perhaps the standard tank caps or something else.
It is certainly not power supply as it is 24v battery on large 18 AH cells.
Another possibility is it may be fan related as it is still on the standard supply.
Of course maybe I am hearing the limits of my iPod nano too, at the moment I can't check on another source, but i will tomorrow.
Any thoughts?
It's hard to tell what you're hearing, but my guess is that the Sure is revealing the limits of your IPod. IPods have a lot of nice features, but high quality sound is not one of them.
-dr_vega
I went back and forth between Dayton poly/foil and Vitamin Qs and finally settled on the Qs. Neither of these caps are available in big enough sizes. Sendler parallels the Daytons to get enough capacitance. I'm using a subwoofer below 100 Hz, so the .68 uF Vitamin Qs are big enough for me.
The Dayton poly/film caps (as opposed to their poly/foil) come big enough and are very good. I have also liked some 2uF WestCap paper-in-oils I bought on ebay.
-dr_vega
Thanks for your reply DR, a little further checking this morning seems to indicate the issue is actually a speaker resonance of some sort, actually it is coming from the port not the front of the driver so could well be a port issue.
This makes sense as the amp sounded faultless on another pair of speakers in my music room.
I do feel however that the amp could well do with some extra or better power supply caps for better bass extension.
My impressions at this point are that the amp has very high resolution, is smooth and has good separation.
It lacks strong dynamics on my test speakers but they are not very efficient but I suspect that going to air core inductors may open it up a bit.
I have some 20 AWG wire on hand, considering that this module will eventually be used for freqs from 80Hz up would this suffice or will I really need to order in 18 AWG wire.
This makes sense as the amp sounded faultless on another pair of speakers in my music room.
I do feel however that the amp could well do with some extra or better power supply caps for better bass extension.
My impressions at this point are that the amp has very high resolution, is smooth and has good separation.
It lacks strong dynamics on my test speakers but they are not very efficient but I suspect that going to air core inductors may open it up a bit.
I have some 20 AWG wire on hand, considering that this module will eventually be used for freqs from 80Hz up would this suffice or will I really need to order in 18 AWG wire.
Going to air-cores gave mine a lot more clarity and a little bit more dynamics. Scott Endler reports that (as one might expect) larger, better quality wire in the air-cores sounds better. Nevertheless, I believe any air-core will sound better than most slug coils. I say go with the 20 gauge. It will be easier to wind and you'll get real benefit. Then, if you like it, you can experiment with 14, 12 or 10 gauge.
I added a 680 uF Panasonic FM tank cap to each channel on the back of the board. It helps with the large, effortless feel of the sound.
As far as dynamics go, I think speakers do more compression than we think, especially tweeters. Changing to Heil AMTs made a HUGE difference to my dynamics. Having said that, more voltage helps the board, 32 volts being the sweet spot.
-dr_vega
Oh, and stick a sock in each of your speakers' ports. You'll lose a little bit of bottom end, but the rest of the bass will tighten up.
-dr_vega
Thanks DR, I just did a little test to see what effect the fan was having on the sound, it is now clear that it is adding grain to the right channel, and a little on the left, stopping the fan makes an obvious difference. I suspect that the noise of the fan gets modulated by the amp as certain freqs and volumes. Bottom line it will definitely have to be run off a separate supply and battery.
I think that dynamics will be fine in the final application, which is my OBs, these are 98 db efficient and the bass comprises of 4 by 12 inch drivers, each of the 12 drivers involved will have their own amp/channel. I can say on gainclones the system has huge dynamics, like a real live performance so I think things will be fine and of course the iPod is banished from that system, and more often I run analogue gear on it.
Overall I just want to get the modules optimised before the final build up, kinda aiming for the ultimate possible quality of sound so I am prepared to look at any small issue that might need attention, your help and that of all the others here is greatly appreciated.
Once again big thanks.
I think that dynamics will be fine in the final application, which is my OBs, these are 98 db efficient and the bass comprises of 4 by 12 inch drivers, each of the 12 drivers involved will have their own amp/channel. I can say on gainclones the system has huge dynamics, like a real live performance so I think things will be fine and of course the iPod is banished from that system, and more often I run analogue gear on it.
Overall I just want to get the modules optimised before the final build up, kinda aiming for the ultimate possible quality of sound so I am prepared to look at any small issue that might need attention, your help and that of all the others here is greatly appreciated.
Once again big thanks.
Is there a particular heat-sink that anyone can recommend ?
ZALMAN CNPS10X FLEX Socket LGA1366, LGA1156, 478, LGA775, AM3, AM2+, AM2, 754, 939, 940 compatible High Performance CPU Heatsink - Ebuyer
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