eld, where can you purchase these Panasonic ZE or XE capacitors?
I was also thinking of a way to easily test different configurations of the output capacitor by removing the existing one & putting in its place two single pin dip sockets which would allow easy placement & removal of capacitors + bypass.
If done for one channel, this could be used to finalise a suitable output cap configuraton!
Jkeny,
They are the exact caps in receiver (1000uF/50V). I have put in a suggestion to Digi-Key to carry them if possible. I cannot find the data sheet as well.
The ZE is larger than the XE and probably have a little more punch, I guess that is why it's in the PSU. I'm not sure if the XR45 have the FM or ZE caps in the output stage, but they have been replace by the XE. Boulder Cables indicated they sound better than what's in the XR45 so it's definitely an upgrade. It would be nice to have the schematic to the XR45 as well, do you know if you can find it?
They are the exact caps in receiver (1000uF/50V). I have put in a suggestion to Digi-Key to carry them if possible. I cannot find the data sheet as well.
The ZE is larger than the XE and probably have a little more punch, I guess that is why it's in the PSU. I'm not sure if the XR45 have the FM or ZE caps in the output stage, but they have been replace by the XE. Boulder Cables indicated they sound better than what's in the XR45 so it's definitely an upgrade. It would be nice to have the schematic to the XR45 as well, do you know if you can find it?
But I thought you said they were downgraded to 820uF in the XR57?
Do you know any other mods Boulder have done?
I'm sure I can get the XR45 Service Manual - I will return
Edit: If I can't get it from sharefx.com for free then you can get it along with SA-XR10 & others from manualsparadise.com for $11 for each manual
Jkeny,
Sorry if I'm causing confusion. The critical caps, XE and ZE, are still the same on the two models (Water caps and PS caps).
The 820uF/50v change I was refering to are on the speaker board, shunting to ground for each positive and negative speaker line. I think these are the filter caps?
BTW, I forgot to meantion that the Silmic II I order are 470uF/50v so I have to double up to compare.
Sorry if I'm causing confusion. The critical caps, XE and ZE, are still the same on the two models (Water caps and PS caps).
The 820uF/50v change I was refering to are on the speaker board, shunting to ground for each positive and negative speaker line. I think these are the filter caps?
BTW, I forgot to meantion that the Silmic II I order are 470uF/50v so I have to double up to compare.
Ah, that's what was confusing me - these caps are actually 820pF not uF - enough for EMI supression.
I thought you were talking about the output caps next to inductor?
As I said, I would be concerned about peeling off traces during the many soldering on & taking off different caps in the output section - did you ever consider the idea of putting hollow pins into the holes where the caps were & fitting your cap leads into these pins much like a dip op-amp sits into a dip socket?
The parts list almost everything as pF, even the power supply and smoothing caps. I should have stuck to the schematic values. Thanks! Now I can see changing them to MKP a worthwhile endeavor. 
The output caps (next to the inductors) and PS caps are still the same (XE and ZE respectively).
The hollow pins are a great idea for testing the caps. I was actually thinking of putting test wires in where the ZE caps used to sit and have all the comparison caps on one outboard. Testing would be done by moving the wires from the each set of caps. What do you think?
The output caps (next to the inductors) and PS caps are still the same (XE and ZE respectively).
The hollow pins are a great idea for testing the caps. I was actually thinking of putting test wires in where the ZE caps used to sit and have all the comparison caps on one outboard. Testing would be done by moving the wires from the each set of caps. What do you think?
Yep, That's a good idea but the length of wire plus the wire on the board to the caps may give rise to added inductance, small but might confuse results? I don't really know!
Just don't strip off the copper trace!! How good are the pcbs, maybe you can say when you tried removing cap!
I order the XR57 from J&R - open box @ $218 + shipping & Tax $254 - just saw I could have got it from AMAZON for 230$ free shipping but this was black - the one I ordered was silver, my preference. Still I'm a happy bunny! Shipped it to my friend's audiophile bro-in-law, he will test & listen for a month & I get it end of Feb!
Just don't strip off the copper trace!! How good are the pcbs, maybe you can say when you tried removing cap!
I order the XR57 from J&R - open box @ $218 + shipping & Tax $254 - just saw I could have got it from AMAZON for 230$ free shipping but this was black - the one I ordered was silver, my preference. Still I'm a happy bunny! Shipped it to my friend's audiophile bro-in-law, he will test & listen for a month & I get it end of Feb!
Nice, jkeny.
I have a silver one too. It looks pretty decent for a budget receiver. I hope your friend's bro-in-law remembers that the stock unit has a lot of compromises built in.
Update on the rewiring, I got a chance to changed out the stock binding posts and updated the wires to 14 AWG long grain copper. The wires are coming directly from the main board to the pure copper posts. I only got a chance to listen to it for about 5 mins this morning, but the change was not subtle! Well worth the effort. BTW, You will need those filter caps. I will update once I get a chance to listen to it some more and will try to post some pics.
Cheers,
Eld
I have a silver one too. It looks pretty decent for a budget receiver. I hope your friend's bro-in-law remembers that the stock unit has a lot of compromises built in.
Update on the rewiring, I got a chance to changed out the stock binding posts and updated the wires to 14 AWG long grain copper. The wires are coming directly from the main board to the pure copper posts. I only got a chance to listen to it for about 5 mins this morning, but the change was not subtle! Well worth the effort. BTW, You will need those filter caps. I will update once I get a chance to listen to it some more and will try to post some pics.
Cheers,
Eld
eld,
Good to hear this is a substantial improvement. So it needs the EMI supression caps!
Here's an area for further improvement that I had forgotten I bookmarked before until I recently got a reply from the originator of the thread - how to connect to the I2S digital lines of the panny bypassing SPDIF which is a comprimised standard! http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80619&highlight=
Good to hear this is a substantial improvement. So it needs the EMI supression caps!
Here's an area for further improvement that I had forgotten I bookmarked before until I recently got a reply from the originator of the thread - how to connect to the I2S digital lines of the panny bypassing SPDIF which is a comprimised standard! http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80619&highlight=
Hi eld,
Any further listening done? I wonder can you say which element is most responsible for the improvement in sonics?
- bypassing the relays, switches, copper traceson on the speaker pcb?
- thicker connection wire?
- better binding posts?
I found the panasonic site sells parts online here: http://www.pstc.panasonic.com/EpartR/PartsListChoice.asp
Unfortunately, the ZE,Xe caps are no cheaper $7. Still, it's handy for replacement parts, as the service manual doesn't identify what the part specs are, just the id no. That's also what the online service uses - so no help there in deciding if an better spec part could be used!
But one interesting issue is that they sell the Power pcb to authorised service companies for $111 (some of the boards are more expensive than the SA-XR57 - HDMI pcb $468). This could be a way for me to change my model to native 230V operation (total price would be still less than $750 price of model here) if I find a willing service centre!
Finally, I found a site that sells a 3*spdif board for connecting to the SA-XR57 for $150 - http://switch-box.com/Home.html.
Any further listening done? I wonder can you say which element is most responsible for the improvement in sonics?
- bypassing the relays, switches, copper traceson on the speaker pcb?
- thicker connection wire?
- better binding posts?
I found the panasonic site sells parts online here: http://www.pstc.panasonic.com/EpartR/PartsListChoice.asp
Unfortunately, the ZE,Xe caps are no cheaper $7. Still, it's handy for replacement parts, as the service manual doesn't identify what the part specs are, just the id no. That's also what the online service uses - so no help there in deciding if an better spec part could be used!
But one interesting issue is that they sell the Power pcb to authorised service companies for $111 (some of the boards are more expensive than the SA-XR57 - HDMI pcb $468). This could be a way for me to change my model to native 230V operation (total price would be still less than $750 price of model here) if I find a willing service centre!
Finally, I found a site that sells a 3*spdif board for connecting to the SA-XR57 for $150 - http://switch-box.com/Home.html.
Thanks for the SPDIF upgrade thread, Jkeny.
I wonder if we can use an iLink type?
I got a chance to listen the modded Panny a lot yesterday and it is definitely a big improvement, even without the filter caps nstalled. Imagining, soundstage, separation, basically everything improved quite a bit. I had to recalibrate my sub settings since the lower mid bass is much fuller now.
Here are some pics of the wire mod:
And this is my cord mod:
It's hard to say which element is more beneficial, but have to guess they are all pretty close since all the elements posed a major loss in signal quality and power. The upgraded binding post have a least several times the gripping power and about 4 times the conductivity of the stock units. I would upgrade the wires and shorten the run first if you had to choose since it's closest to the output signals.
I wonder if we can use an iLink type?
I got a chance to listen the modded Panny a lot yesterday and it is definitely a big improvement, even without the filter caps nstalled. Imagining, soundstage, separation, basically everything improved quite a bit. I had to recalibrate my sub settings since the lower mid bass is much fuller now.
Here are some pics of the wire mod:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And this is my cord mod:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It's hard to say which element is more beneficial, but have to guess they are all pretty close since all the elements posed a major loss in signal quality and power. The upgraded binding post have a least several times the gripping power and about 4 times the conductivity of the stock units. I would upgrade the wires and shorten the run first if you had to choose since it's closest to the output signals.
Yea, I caught that discussion on AVS - there seems to be a bit of agreement on this - might well be true - Panasonic are not the most savvy marketing co for these receivers, in my experience!
Also they did not make any new model announcements at CES 2008 - their last model is XR59 introduced in Europe & Australia, was it end of 2006?
Also they did not make any new model announcements at CES 2008 - their last model is XR59 introduced in Europe & Australia, was it end of 2006?
Thanks eld,
for the report - seems beneficial all round.
From the images, you seem to have single amps running each speaker? No dual amping?
What is the centre connector for? - you left it out in your re-wiring!
Also what is the perf board used for?
Nice job on the mains cable!
Edit: The reason I ask about which is most beneficial is that it would be nice to retain the switching into dual/triple amping for HT use!
for the report - seems beneficial all round.
From the images, you seem to have single amps running each speaker? No dual amping?
What is the centre connector for? - you left it out in your re-wiring!
Also what is the perf board used for?
Nice job on the mains cable!
Edit: The reason I ask about which is most beneficial is that it would be nice to retain the switching into dual/triple amping for HT use!
Also those output inductors look very close to one another - does this cause any crosstalk/distortion, I wonder? It will probably cause some mutual inductance as per Pulsus inductors here: http://www.pulsus.co.kr/english/products/pro_03_04a.html
Manufacturer of other pure digital amplifier chips!
Does this cause the effective inductance to be greater than the spec?
Manufacturer of other pure digital amplifier chips!
Does this cause the effective inductance to be greater than the spec?
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