Hi Raver, although I have not owned a trends I have listened and modified enough TA2024 based amps (sonics/fenice etc) to say that they are very similar to the TA2020's.
There is slighly more power from the Charlize before clipping but I have never used the volume past 40% so that is irrelevant to myself.
I think you would be hard pushed to tell the difference between the stock versions........Obviously though, you still need to case-up the Charlize so the Trends would appear to be the best cost option.....
My favourite set up is my heavily modified Charlize with custom toroids on the output, feedback resistors soldered directly to the pins and Obligatto input caps....Wonerful!
There is slighly more power from the Charlize before clipping but I have never used the volume past 40% so that is irrelevant to myself.
I think you would be hard pushed to tell the difference between the stock versions........Obviously though, you still need to case-up the Charlize so the Trends would appear to be the best cost option.....
My favourite set up is my heavily modified Charlize with custom toroids on the output, feedback resistors soldered directly to the pins and Obligatto input caps....Wonerful!
giulio said:More info on custom toroids, pretty please...
Type, source...
TIA
Giulio
Well these are based on recomendations from the man himself..... panomaniac that is
They are type 61 toroids with only 13 wraps of .71mm maplin magnet wire.
I prefer these to the aircores that came with the amp (no offence Yeo & vt4c) but I like more dynamic/vivid presentation.
I have a stock Trends 10.1 and a Charlize. Trends now well burnt in (took a long time!) - Charlize almost cooked.
From the start, the Charlize surpasses the Trends sonically in all departments. It was well worth an evening building & soldering.
The Charlize has a bigger soundstage width / depth, less fatiguing and smoother mids / highs, the best vocals and piano I have yet heard, slightly more volume before distorting, sounds better at very low vol levels (late night listening), and resolves complex and harsh mixes better.
Having said that, the Trends is a fine amp, and these differences are noticeable but not huge.
Bottom line: Charlize is in the main system and will stay there.
(Wide range of music. System as sig.)
From the start, the Charlize surpasses the Trends sonically in all departments. It was well worth an evening building & soldering.
The Charlize has a bigger soundstage width / depth, less fatiguing and smoother mids / highs, the best vocals and piano I have yet heard, slightly more volume before distorting, sounds better at very low vol levels (late night listening), and resolves complex and harsh mixes better.
Having said that, the Trends is a fine amp, and these differences are noticeable but not huge.
Bottom line: Charlize is in the main system and will stay there.
(Wide range of music. System as sig.)
Lostcause said:
Well these are based on recomendations from the man himself..... panomaniac that is
They are type 61 toroids with only 13 wraps of .71mm maplin magnet wire.
I prefer these to the aircores that came with the amp (no offence Yeo & vt4c) but I like more dynamic/vivid presentation.
I take it as a constructive comment.
Yes, the ferrite core will give certain set-up a 'sense' of better dynamic comparing to the air-core. My own take on this after listening to both air-core and ferrite core version of Charlize is due to air core exhibit a more smoother music reproduction through it and perhaps this is perceived as less dynamic/vivid.
BTW, Charlize does comes with ferrite core version if requested.
I own both amps and agree with Alan, he hit the differences right on the mark. I'd only add that the stock Trends 10.1 sounds a bit too dry and grainy for my liking.
Last week I finished the Mardis Level II mod on the 10.1 and have to say the amp is noticeably improved. Still a little brighter than Charlize, but no grain or fatigue. Smoother with great detail on good recordings, but piano is not quite right. Maybe a longer break-in will improve things.
Dave
Last week I finished the Mardis Level II mod on the 10.1 and have to say the amp is noticeably improved. Still a little brighter than Charlize, but no grain or fatigue. Smoother with great detail on good recordings, but piano is not quite right. Maybe a longer break-in will improve things.
Dave
gordon1130 said:
The extended break-in time really makes tripath amps difficult to assess. At about 2 days, my Charlize bass disappeared almost completely, and the treble became horribly grainy. After another 12 hours, and while I was listening, the sound righted itself over about 10 seconds, but some grain stayed for another 24 hours! How you assess the effect of mods with certainty I don't know.
I would guess that the Mardis Signature Trends would sound similar to the Charlize - given the effects these mods are reported to have ...
Code said:
Strangely enough I was just trying to find the pictures...spooky!
Anyway, I can't seem to find them but the essence of it is...
The feedback loop needs to be as small as possible so I just soldered the SMD's to the pins where they enter the case of the TA2020...damn fiddly but an 0603 sits neatly across the input and feedback pins... a steady hand is required
Shiznit said:
I don't, actually.
But that doesn't mean the Charlize is "better". They each have their good points and bad points. And they do sound more alike than different.
To my ears, and to the ears of many others who've written to me about these amps, the TA2020 based amps like the Charlize and AMP6 have a fuller, bigger sound than the TA2024 amps like the Trends, Sonic Impact, Super-T, Fenice20 etc.
But the TA2024 seems to be the winner for the micro details, that certain magical thing that it's hard to put a finger on. Magic is about as close as I can come to describing it. The sort of thing that triode lovers rave about. Though they don't really sound like triodes.
So you pays your money and you takes your choices.
The Charlize and AMP6 have a wonderful rich midrange and good solid bass. The Trends has a certain "je ne sais quoi" detailed magic.
So I think it comes down to taste, your system and what is important to you. I tend more toward the big bass and full midrange, but do understand the desire for that ethereal magic of the Trends. Is there a chip with both?
In most cases, the power supply will make more difference than the chip. Input caps matter, too.
Sorry if that isn't much help, no clear winner. But for me there isn't. That has been my experience and that of many others I've talked to.
I tend to listen to the TA2020 simply because it will play louder.
panomaniac said:
Wish there was a chip that did both, Am thinking Alan's suggestion to bi-amp may be the closest we'll see to it. Using tube amps during the winter and swithing to the Tripath amps during the hot summer months, I can appreciate that "etheral magic of the Trends" you describe.
One difference I noticed that may be important to a buyer sitting on the fence is at what volume music is played. To me the Trends with Mardis Level II mod sounds better and more involving played at low to moderate volumes ie. late night listening etc., while Charlize sounds better when played louder. At moderate volumes I believe the audible similarites between the two are at their closest.
Your very descriptive opinion of the audible differences between the TA2020 and TA2024 chips was suprisingly candid, unexpected, and appreciated, thanks. I agree the choice somes down to whats important to you.
Dave
panomaniac said:
When I borrowed Jon Clancy's modded Trends and compared it directly against my modded Amp6 I'd say your spot on Michael!
I found the Amps6 did have more power and wider soundstage but there was something almost addictive with the Trends, its not perfect, far from it tbh but theres something that makes it enjoyable, for the money I think these are great little amps!
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