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Old 3rd October 2013, 04:05 PM   #91
Just DIY!
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BTW, for those concerned with water cooling and potential fire and electrocution hazards, there are some cooling fluids used in PC cooling that are totally non conductive and non-destructive to electronics...

See here as example
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14...tl=g30c337s888

And this is just one of many brands... Basically, cooloant with deionized water is not conductive.

Ciao!
Do
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Old 3rd October 2013, 08:00 PM   #92
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Hi BcmBob,
I used this pump it's quiet and at about 260 gals a Hour,I found some solid copper server heatsinks and cut them in half longways,covered them with copper sheet and soldered on 2 1/2" tubes to get the water in and out,I run them on a F5 F5T and a Ba-3 so far I have a pump for all of these(1 Channel) running from f5 to F5t to ba-3 and into a 5 gal bucket of water, depending on TEXAS weather I have a temp probe right beside the mofsets to read out the temp so far the most I have read is 48 C so no radiator yet or a control to regulate the pump speed,NOW it will heat up after a while but is good for a few good songs,lol.
I made you a couple of pics!
Have FUN I do,lol.
NS
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File Type: jpg 100_2054.JPG (747.6 KB, 189 views)
File Type: jpg 100_2055.JPG (466.2 KB, 168 views)
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Old 3rd October 2013, 10:56 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noSmoking View Post
Hi BcmBob,
I used this pump it's quiet and at about 260 gals a Hour,I found some solid copper server heatsinks and cut them in half longways,covered them with copper sheet and soldered on 2 1/2" tubes to get the water in and out,I run them on a F5 F5T and a Ba-3 so far I have a pump for all of these(1 Channel) running from f5 to F5t to ba-3 and into a 5 gal bucket of water, depending on TEXAS weather I have a temp probe right beside the mofsets to read out the temp so far the most I have read is 48 C so no radiator yet or a control to regulate the pump speed,NOW it will heat up after a while but is good for a few good songs,lol.
I made you a couple of pics!
Have FUN I do,lol.
NS
Nicely Done! Keep coming with the photos as you get the whole system together.
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Old 11th October 2013, 04:00 PM   #94
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Default Aleph Kool J

I am following in Bob's footsteps with an attempt to build the diyAudio Store version of the Pass Aleph J using liquid cooling, in particular, my version of Bob's cooling tower approach. I admit to being a very slow project builder, but I've made enough progress to show the liquid cooling heat sink. Besides, Bob has been bugging me to post.

For the heatsink, I am using a 2" square x 1/4" wall thickness aluminum tube. I made a manifold for the base with both inlet and outlet ports. As in Bob's design, the water flows up from the bottom in the square tube, then flows down through a round tube inside to the pump. The height of the round tube is set by the output devices on the square tube. In my case, I have added several inches of square tube above that to serve as a reservoir for fluid and thermal expansion.

In my case, both the square and round tube are press fit to the manifold. I was worried about leaking with a square press fit, so I also welded the manifold to the square tube.

The first photo shows the parts before assembly.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attac...1&d=1381502160

The second photo shows the heatsink assembly during the mockup stage. At this point, I am experimenting with standoff height relative to the output devices. Since there are no through holes in the heatsink above the manifold, any leak should be below the electronics. I will build the rest of the amp with all joints below the electronics. Not that I think there will be any leaks. :-)

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attac...1&d=1381502160

The last photo is a shot down the heatsink tube showing the round tube and port inside. I am sure it will take me a long time to get this puppy running, but I am looking forward to see how well it cools.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attac...1&d=1381502160

If I had it to do over again, I would look for an extruded outer tube with a heavy central wall. The output devices are too large to mount at the edge, so tapping shallow holes in the 1/4" thick wall to secure the output devices can be tricky. (OK, I admit it. I screwed up on on hole.) If you had a central wall, you could tap deeper holes without risk. The other approach is to use a spreader bar that bridges across the output device to the deeper walls at the edges.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg AJ heatsink parts.jpg (640.6 KB, 133 views)
File Type: jpg AJ mock up.jpg (562.9 KB, 121 views)
File Type: jpg AJ down tube.jpg (507.0 KB, 65 views)
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Old 11th October 2013, 06:04 PM   #95
bcmbob is offline bcmbob  United States
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Great Props to both NS and Jac

I'm thrilled to see other working on the concept.

NS - Nice use of PC heatsinks. It would be interesting to see your feed/return layout. I started something similar for a server motherboard that has four quad-core processors on-board. Like you, I used stock materials - the CPU heatsinks are just 1.5" copper pipe caps. I'm showing it here as the manifold approach sounds like something you could apply to your project. Make sure you look into automotive heater cores if/when you add a radiator. I'm still struggling with AC pump speed control but may have found the answer by accident. I have a Dremel type grinder that required occasional re-soldering on the internal PCB. It finally dawned on me that copying that circuit could do the trick. Hope to give it a try soon.

Here is the magic bullet: BT136-600D

DC pumps and fans are much easier to control.


*********

Jac - Nicely done. I bought a small welder but it doesn't have the grunt to do aluminum. You may be receiving some mystery packages in the mail soon.

You are ahead of me as my current inlet and return is made from copper tubes soldered to a piece of flat stock. The block you machined is a clearly superior method. I haven't tried it yet as the thickness needed requires laminating at least two pieces of the Plexiglas I'm using, and I don't want to introduce a potential leak point at that joint. I like the plastic because it machines just like metal with hand tools and many DIYers don't have access to a shop. I have some 2" blocks on order. But your bottom plug design offers great flexibility for taping to match and align tubes in proper orientation for the rest of the cooling system.

Not sure what having a reservoir at the top provides. That implies you may be filling the system from that point. I think it is too close to the FETs to be safe. Please explain. It looks like the combination of the cooler and those mounting devices will supply a big margin of heat dissipation. Looking Good!
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File Type: jpg 20131011_122352.jpg (53.1 KB, 55 views)
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Last edited by bcmbob; 11th October 2013 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 11th October 2013, 07:50 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcmbob View Post
Not sure what having a reservoir at the top provides. That implies you may be filling the system from that point. I think it is too close to the FETs to be safe. Please explain.
I'm probably the one needing an explanation here. I guess I haven't figured out how your reservoir works if it is low. It seemed to me that a low reservoir would have to be sealed to avoid overflowing from the higher water level of the heat exchanger. I thought the air belonged at the top of the system and I could just make the heatsink taller as a reservoir. that way, I can have an overflow weep hole (see small brass tube near the top) and a small hose directing any overflow to the bottom.

As for spilling on the FET, I didn't expect to be filling it that often. I just expected to be careful. Just curious, how much coolant disappears over time in your experience?

I guess now is the time to reconsider a separate reservoir, if that is the right thing to do.
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Old 11th October 2013, 08:41 PM   #97
bcmbob is offline bcmbob  United States
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Yes the system needs to be sealed to avoid evaporation loss. You can setup the entire loop -cooler, radiator, resivoir, pump and tubes independently. In fact you should as a safety check. Run it and check for leaks. Stop it and let it set overnight and check. Sometimes the flow masks tiny leaks that gravity will find.

Try to visualize your entire amp system with chassis beforehand. Then you can build the reservoir to your specific requirements. I tend to make them taller than necessary and keep the liquid level high as an evaporation shield. There are a few tricks to getting Plexiglas joints air tight. Just let me know when you get to that point. A small sheet ~ 1/8" - 1/4" from Home Depot will make several reservoirs. It just needs to be thick enough to hold a taped hole. You may have the tools and skills to come up with an aluminum base similar to your cooler bottom. There are many available designs.



It may not make sense at first, but as long as the air is sealed out you can place both the pump and the reservoir at any level and/or location.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Sealed.jpg (83.8 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg Installed-2-XL.jpg (210.6 KB, 80 views)
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Last edited by bcmbob; 11th October 2013 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 11th October 2013, 09:17 PM   #98
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Hi ALL,
LOOKING GOOD,some new ideas,I like that,
I am going to set up the fan,radiator,pump to cool the water in the reservoir and then let the pumps circulate it through the heatsink coolers,I figure it will keep a constant temp better and I won't have to control the circulating pump speed as my motor/pumps are enclosed units,I am using 10 gals of water now as a res and don't have to cool it ,it stays around 47 C ,I would like to see 50 C as thats the point Nelson sazs is optimum ,I do think it's a good temp to use,I notice that when it heats up to close to that temp it sounds a little better mostly bass punch,maybe that's the temp sweet spot,LOL. Keep it comming,just think a 1000's fet and a heated swimming pool,lol.
Regards,
NS
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Old 11th October 2013, 10:16 PM   #99
bcmbob is offline bcmbob  United States
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Jac, After a little thought - your placement of the free air space at the top of the cooler is probably a valid design. It may be a little tricky at first to get the fluid level inside the cooler at a place where air isn't drawn back through the pump, particularly after the flow is stopped for a period of time.

But as you say - much care is needed when filling the system. I'd encourage you to do the first filling without the amp modules - run it - test it. Probably the most significant difference with a remote reservoir from Plexiglas is that is can also act as a sight glass for liquid levels.

There is a tiny bit of microscopic fluid loss through the walls of Tygon type tubing over long lengths. If you can use the metal tubing you mentioned, you may only have to do a check every six months or longer.
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Last edited by bcmbob; 11th October 2013 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 2nd January 2014, 11:45 PM   #100
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http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attac...1&d=1388705782

Just a brief update. I've been working on building the box to house the liquid cooled Aleph J.

First of all, it's huge. I know. I'm sure I could make it quite a bit smaller, but I wanted lots of room to change components, tune the bias, etc. And without having to take everything apart.

The component layout was driven by my idea of keeping most of the water connections below the electronics or far away. I was also trying to keep noise as low as possible by having all of the air come in and out on the back. Their will be a second floor that will sit above most of the cooling lines. That allows me to support things like the transformer.

I am using copper line for longevity. My radiator looks tiny compared to those used by Bob, but the specs suggest it will easily handle the 160 W that the AJ has to reject. This is no BA-3 for heat rejection.

More to come, although it is becoming busy at work, so who knows when I will finish it.
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