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It begins... gainclones on ebay
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Old 29th September 2003, 09:46 PM   #71
millwood is offline millwood  United States
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Originally posted by jean-paul
If people don't hear the difference between resistors or caps I think they need a hearing aid and maybe should choose another hobby.
alternatively, those who do hear a difference should donate their ears to the national science fundation for further examination.

Originally posted by jean-paul
So who is "the rest of us" exactly ?
those of us who don't hear the difference?
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Old 29th September 2003, 09:48 PM   #72
millwood is offline millwood  United States
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Originally posted by SY
millwood, you're dead wrong regarding Peter and his motivations. Dead wrong.
I would be happy to be wrong on this. But I need convincing.

Originally posted by purplepeople


Mill, there are various desserts available that go well with the dish called "foot in mouth." One is called humble pie. I know, I've had to make some of my own past meals palatable.

Thanks, Pur. I wil leave all of that for you to enjoy, alone,
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Old 29th September 2003, 09:52 PM   #73
SY is offline SY  United States
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It begins... gainclones on ebay
I would be happy to be wrong on this. But I need convincing.
Doctor Johnson once said, "I can give you an answer, but I cannot give you an understanding."

Give it a rest for 2 days as far as this thread is concerned. If you take up the same line elsewhere or continue in this thread, you will be back in the SinBin.
"You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."
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Old 29th September 2003, 09:58 PM   #74
jean-paul is offline jean-paul  Netherlands
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Originally posted by millwood

alternatively, those who do hear a difference should donate their ears to the national science fundation for further examination.

those of us who don't hear the difference?
When I reread your post I see a generalisation meaning that only Peter is the one that hears the difference and "the rest of us " don't hear that. Being one of "the rest" I think that there a *lot* of people hearing the difference. It all depends if you want to do something with that. I for sure don't go as far as some do but do test my components for sonical and technical performance. Direct comparing with non-audio non-technical people confirms my own findings with respect to sonical differences between certain components.

But then again some people claim all opamps sound the same etc. No need for convincing other people nor having an attitude towards the ones that do put time in that what they're convinced in.
It's only audio. Member of the non modular PCB design committee
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Old 29th September 2003, 11:59 PM   #75
jackinnj is offline jackinnj  United States
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It begins... gainclones on ebay
Originally posted by Nuuk
apparently the offeree never availed himself of the Classics.
such is the state of higher education on the North American Continent.
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Old 30th September 2003, 01:55 AM   #76
tom1356 is offline tom1356  United States
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If there is a field trip to the national science foundation planned, please count me in. I can hear differences in most parts, tweaks, and vibration dampeners. I pity and envy those who don't.
My "cult-like" following is accepting applications.
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Old 30th September 2003, 02:44 AM   #77
matjans is offline matjans  Netherlands
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Default a short history

altyhough i am pretty new to the whole diy audio thing, i have been tweaking my own GC for the last couple of days and i must say that i do hear the difference in certain components.

Whereas some components (DC coupling caps, feedback resistor) have a great impact on sound quality, some other components have less impact on it.

I am not only speaking about the much praised Black gates and other *really high end* stuff (as I have not tried those (yet)) but one can really hear the difference between standard el cheapo capacitors & in my case, sprague capacitors, 0.25W5% resistors (carbon film) & 1W1% metal film resistors.

On the other hand, I have not (yet?) heard the difference between some cheap EUR 2 speaker terminals and the speaker terminals I recently bought (EUR 14).
I have also not heard the difference between the wooden plank my GC's are currently stuffed onto and the stainless steel box I intend to mount them in (believe me, i've tried).

On the first hand again, while I've never believed the BS stories of so called "burning in" of interconnects, I recently made some pure silver interconnects. When i first connected them they sounded horrible, absolutely horrible. I let my CD player play all night (repeat, repeat etc) with my amps on volume 0, and the next morning they sounded better than the vd Hul Interconnects I was used to. ALthough I still don't know how and why this works, it works. Strange but true.
The same goed for speaker cables. I used to use normal el cheapo speaker cable, then i switched to the TNTaudio triple T speaker cable. That sounded horrible on my GC. When i read that GC;s don't like high capacitance speakers cable I tried a simple CAT5 (1strand +, the rest -) cable. I did notice a great difference -and for the better that is...

Still, I dont't know why this works but hey, it works. Who cares!

Now, do I belong to "the rest of us" or not? That, imho, is for you to decide...

My $0.02 worth...

heck, i'm getting the hang of this diy thing!
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Old 30th September 2003, 08:03 PM   #78
Squalish is offline Squalish  United States
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I'm glad we're getting back to the topic(although it's actually threadjacking the original topic, it's still informative).

Originally posted by Squalish
I think adding more chips, at $5/chip, is a logical extension of the bigger = better philosophy that we already practice w/ buying oversized toroids and caps when possible. Whether it actually sounds better remains to be seen, but one should at least try it, esp when it's so relatively cheap. You've said that you practice bi-amping, for example. How far away is that from simply parallelling two or more chips?
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Old 1st October 2003, 12:40 PM   #79
GrahamnDodder is offline GrahamnDodder  United States
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Spec's on the Ebay GainClone (from the seller's e-mail):

The caps are not Black Gate but new parts just the same. I do not remember
if they are Mallory or Panasonic. One or the other.

All resistors are
soldered directly on the LM3875TF chips. All parts are point to point
soldering. There is no card per say like the original. The feedback resistor
is 22K. (GnD Note: This must be a typo - should be 220k) If I recall, all resistors are metal film by Phillips. All are 1%
tolerance. And yes, all components are hand matched.

This amplifier has been
running on a 24 hour a day for over two months without a glitch. I know it
will arrive in good shape. This is not the inverted but like the original
non inverted type. I tried both and the inverted is less involving_ with
less detailing and less resolving as well.

I would like to point out that the casing for such an amplifier is crucial.
And this is a casing that was originally intended for submarines in their
radio installation. The price of such a casing is 250.00$ alone. There is no
RFs here with this thick aluminum brass coated solid milled block .
I had the right to remain silent. I just didn't have the ability. (Comedian Ron White)
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Old 1st October 2003, 03:29 PM   #80
martinv is offline martinv  New Zealand
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Default Just my 2 cents...

After reading all the replies and the storm this seems to have started, I thought I'd check out the auction on E-Bay!

As far as I can see, there is nothing wrong with what this chap has done. I believe that the crucial point is that he is (or at least appears to be) selling just one unit, privately. This is quite different from commercially selling replicas in volume. Here is a parallel if you like from the car industry. I think this is a good analogy. The Porsche 550 race car, manufactured around half a century ago. A number of manufacturers today are making copies of this car. They are however not allowed to mention Porsche anywhere in the description of the car. This does not stop the odd owner of such a replica advertising his car for sale as a Porsche 550 replica and many people do advertise their cars as such.

In the ad, the poster uses the word 'clone'. To me this suggests that it's not the original from 47 labs and therefore any claims about its performance are purely the opinion of the author. Likewise if I see an ad for a replica Porsche 550, I'm going to take all the quoted specs with a grain of salt as I know it wasn't produced in the Porsche factory.

The poster quotes the price of the original amp that was copied. He also quotes the price of some amp made by some other company. So what?

Regarding the starting price of $500, I would think he is free to ask whatever price he wants to ask. Some people seem to be suggesting that the materials in the amp aren't worth the $500 starting bid, and that therefore something sinister is going on. To that I would say that material cost sometimes has nothing to do with asking price. If I paint a painting and ask 10000 Euros for it, what's the problem? Think about that too the next time you pay 2 Euros 50 for a can of coke at a fair. Secondly, maybe the amp did cost quite a lot to build. Maybe a lot more than $500. I'm getting side-tracked but....

... more than ten years ago I built a LM1875 based amp. It was my first real DIY amp and by the time I'd bought all the bits and pieces from the local bits and pieces retailer, the amp cost more than $300 US, and it didn't even look pretty. Likewise I've had things made out of aluminium billets and the tooling gets extremely expensive! Custom stuff costs a lot!

Really it's just a case of buyer beware IMO.

...and just to be sure, no it's not me either.

PS, is my LM1875 amp classed as a Gainclone, even though I built it before there was such a thing as the Gaincard? It seems to have very similar components, all gathered from the device application sheet.
Xenaphobia - Fear of being beaten to a pulp by a leather clad New Zealand woman.
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