The new "My Ref" Rev C thread - Page 45 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Chip Amps

Chip Amps Amplifiers based on integrated circuits

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th March 2009, 05:23 PM   #441
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Victoria, BC
Peter:
Since I'm too cheap to actually buy any 'high-end' caps, I resorted to the tried-and-true: borrowing.
Dave Dlugos (Planet10) was good enough to lend me a handful of (pairs of) capacitors yesterday.
I plan on using them with a relay switching board and my latest pair of myref's to build up an amp with switchable input caps- relays controlled from the listening position.

I'll let y'all know if I hear anything,and I'll try to get the rig 'in circulation' a bit to get input from better ears than mine.

It could turn out to be great entertainment at a diy get-together as well- I plan on having lots of colored lights , etc on the rig.

Cheers
John
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2009, 06:05 PM   #442
schro20 is offline schro20  United States
diyAudio Member
 
schro20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Altadena, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by madisonears
I will gladly contribute to a structured database when my experiments prove more conclusive. Right now, I'm still evaluating changes
Great! Take your time.
Quote:
Originally posted by VictoriaGuy
I plan on using them with a relay switching board and my latest pair of myref's to build up an amp with switchable input caps- relays controlled from the listening position.
That's sounds like total fun!

I figure this is like wine. There are different tastes and opinions, but there are also ways to agree that some wine is definitely in a different class than another, even if you don't personally like that particular one. I know I am like that with wines and there are certain wine critics with who I tend to agree.

I also know from wine tasting (if that analogy is indeed reasonable) that it is something that one can (must) learn to get there. There are structured exercises designed to help beginners start to distinguish the more subtle aspects. So it is with that attitude (learning to taste wine) that I approach this.

Enough now. Back to work.

peter
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2009, 08:49 PM   #443
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders
Quote:
Originally posted by ClaveFremen
..... caps forming for elcos is a fact.....
so much so that the manufacturers insist that they be formed before testing to see if they meet specification.

Forming the di-electric/insulation between the plates/foils of an electrolytic is NOT the same as "burning in".
__________________
regards Andrew T.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2009, 09:09 PM   #444
Reality first!
diyAudio Member
 
ClaveFremen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milan, Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewT
so much so that the manufacturers insist that they be formed before testing to see if they meet specification.

Forming the di-electric/insulation between the plates/foils of an electrolytic is NOT the same as "burning in".
I don't knew it

Nevertheless also elcos do change their sound after the first hours of use...

I've heard it happening too many times...
__________________
Dario
ClaveFremen "Bailando Salsa en el Sietch"
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2009, 09:49 PM   #445
Reality first!
diyAudio Member
 
ClaveFremen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milan, Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by schro20
Let's get back to the thread title...

The subject was: suggestions for things to try in terms of different components.
...
So... To all the people with actual tweaking experience under their belt for the revC, for the rest of us, suggest your one favorite ("this makes the most and most noticeable difference") change.
Well, it's still a work in progress and I'm waiting other caps to test.

So far my list of positions suitable for upgraded parts is:

C21:
Swap AVX BQ with Wima MKS2/MKP2 (100 to 220 nF) (perfect fit)

Cleans-up highs, better soundstage and basses

Great reward, low cost (15 Eurocents ea)

C9:
Swap Panasonic FM with Elna Silmic II 220uF 35V (greater voltage rating are OK but more difficult to mount)

Sound has more body, everything is bigger (soundstage, reverb) bass is deeper and more controlled.

Great reward and reasonable cost (94 Eurocents ea)

C17, C18:

Swap with 100 nF X7R ceramics (AVX SkyCap) or better pull them out. (perfect fit)

More reverb, soundstage is bigger, dynamic is slightly increased

low cost, subtle but clearly audible improvement (18 Eurocents ea)

C19, C20:

Swap with 100 nF X7R ceramics (AVX SkyCap) or better pull them out. (perfect fit)

Dynamic is increased, sound seems more 'free'

low cost, clearly audible improvement (18 Eurocents ea)

C13:

Swap with a better one.

Together with C9/C21 this is the most rewarding swap but the ideal cap is yet to be determined.

Some better caps tried by me and/or others:
Low cost: Evox-Rifa PHE426 (87 Eurocents ea)
Mid cost: AudioCap Theta, Obbligato premium aluminum (ca 12$ ea)
High Cost: Mundorf SIO (ca 31 Euros ea)

High reward and ???? cost

C1, C2:

Yet to try

C30:

Yet to try

I used a Wima FKP2 and I suspect that is a nice improvement.

When I'll mount sockets for C1, C2 I'll try too the one in kit.

C6, C11:

Swap Panasonic FMs with Elna Silmics II 100 uF 35V (perfect fit)

Dynamic is increased, bass is even better, thicker and more articulated, sound is slightly warmer and has more body.
if you do prefer a more analytic sound probably you would keep FMs

Great reward and reasonable cost (74 Eurocents ea)

-----

Silmics require an initial burn-in of 20-40 hours
This list is preliminary and subject to change as others caps are tested

So far the C9/C21 caps choice seems to be final.
__________________
Dario
ClaveFremen "Bailando Salsa en el Sietch"
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2009, 10:42 PM   #446
Reality first!
diyAudio Member
 
ClaveFremen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milan, Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by ClaveFremen
C6, C11:

Swap Panasonic FMs with Elna Silmics II 100 uF 35V (perfect fit)

Dynamic is increased, bass is even better, thicker and more articulated, sound is slightly warmer and has more body.
if you do prefer a more analytic sound probably you would keep FMs

Great reward and reasonable cost (74 Eurocents ea)
Rereading my post I've noticed that it seems that difference swapping C6, C11 is not so big or important.

Actually difference is quite big:

- sound is slightly warmer but fully detailed and open
- there's little or no harshness
- soundstage is bigger and deeper
- bass gains authority, is even deeper, thicker and more articulated
- dynamic is slightly increased
- sound is not 'thin' it has 'flesh', body, texture

These considerations apply after an initial burn-in of 20-40 hours, at first they sound horribly
__________________
Dario
ClaveFremen "Bailando Salsa en el Sietch"
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2009, 11:50 PM   #447
udailey is offline udailey  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Dario,
I was reading about Mundorf M-Cap. I saw a lot of references saying they were the best bang for buck cap for decoupling. Anyway, a guy is saying HERE that you should try bypassing the decoupling cap with a .1uf. Wonder if you might try this in your testing. Doesnt have to be Mundorf of course.
Uriah
__________________
purchase LDRs anytime Also try my Resistor Replacers or LDR based Input Selector Email me. diyldr@gmail.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2009, 12:45 AM   #448
Reality first!
diyAudio Member
 
ClaveFremen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milan, Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by udailey
Dario,
I was reading about Mundorf M-Cap. I saw a lot of references saying they were the best bang for buck cap for decoupling. Anyway, a guy is saying HERE that you should try bypassing the decoupling cap with a .1uf. Wonder if you might try this in your testing. Doesnt have to be Mundorf of course.
Uriah
I've tried MCaps (the white ones, right?) in my brother's cd player and they sound quite good (a big step-up from electrolytics), but compared to a MCap Zn (I've used it in my SACD player) they're closed, muddy.

An MKP1837 (10 nF) bypass helped a lot but the ultimate clarity is another thing...

Never tried to bypass them with Supremes or Zns (too costly... 8 and 4 for a bypass cap! )

In crossover applications my central channel has an MCap in series with the tweeter and my front speakers have an MCap Supreme (both MKP1837 bypassed)... the difference is embarassing (as Supremes' price )

I've just ordered Obbligatos (8$ each) to try (one month to wait... )

In the next two weeks should arrive MKP10s that I've ordered at the end of last month.

I'm spending too much money on this amp

Mmh, I've just realized that it could be that you just asked to try a 100nF bypass, isn't it?
__________________
Dario
ClaveFremen "Bailando Salsa en el Sietch"
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2009, 01:01 AM   #449
Reality first!
diyAudio Member
 
ClaveFremen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milan, Italy
Just tried PHE426 bypassed with:

MKP1837: soundstage is not as deep than without
MKS2: subtle but clearly audible improvement, soundstage a little better, bass is a bit tighter, cleans-up highs a bit too
BQ: subtle improvement, Wimas are a lot better.
__________________
Dario
ClaveFremen "Bailando Salsa en el Sietch"
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2009, 01:42 AM   #450
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Not sure about Mundorf being "the best bang for the buck." The best ones are perhaps too expensive for what they can deliver to anything but the most highly resolving systems. I liked these amps almost as much with the AudioCap Theta at C13 as I do with the Mundorf SIO in the circuit. I'm past 50 hours burn-in, and the Mundorf's have changed A LOT, and all for the better. In some ways, this is the best sound I've ever heard from my stereo. If your other equipment is good stuff, you will appreciate the expensive SIO. But the AudioCap's (and perhaps others) will get you 90% of the way there at 1/5 the cost. If you demand that last 10% of performance, the Mundorf's deliver it like nothing else I've heard.

There is a slight coloration to the sound I hear now, but I don't think it's the Mundorf at C13; I think it's either the Elna Silmic or the Wima. It is not an overwhelming coloration until just the right tone appears in the music. There is a nasality, almost a phasey type of sound to the human voice and sometimes horns, but only on certain notes and types of singing. It is definitely some sort of resonance, and it attenuates the vocals and puts them way back in the soundstage behind all the other music when they should be most prominent. I first noticed it after inserting the Elna's and Wima's into the circuit (I made both changes at once--bad move). I thought it would go away as the caps burned in, but it hasn't, and it has become more annoying because everything else sounds so right. I can hardly explain it clearly because it's not something basic like rolled off highs or weak bass. It's right in the midrange, in the middle of vocals, where accuracy is most important. Every other aspect of the sound is ideal, and I really enjoy listening to it until this anomaly manifests itself.

I would be wary of this combination. If you change the Panny and AVX, do it one at a time, not both at once. I am planning to change one or the other, probably the Elna.

Peace,
Tom E
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The "What slogan would you have if you were a high-end audio company?" Thread. Spasticteapot Everything Else 118 27th September 2011 03:31 AM
Original ECL86 "Baby Huey" thread jkeny Tubes / Valves 14 23rd November 2009 07:35 PM
"compact loudspeaker factory visit from "magico mini" thread Nanook Multi-Way 2 4th January 2008 07:30 AM
The "Really simple and cheap speaker designs for the newbie!" thread. Spasticteapot Multi-Way 5 19th March 2006 04:16 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:53 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2